Our Own Stories - guest Kit Caelsto

Transcript

Start Time:: 00:00:02

End Time: 00:33:11.160

Jenn Wilson: Hi everyone and welcome to today's episode of the irregular humans podcast with me, Jenn, Wilson and my guest today is Kit, Kaelstow, Hi Kit.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Hi.

Jenn Wilson: It's great to have you here, and Kit Chaosto is a spiritual. Do you know what I've forgotten what it is that you describe yourself as Kit.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): A spiritual storyteller.

Jenn Wilson: A spiritual storyteller. That's it, of course, because I know that you're a great storyteller, and I was just trying to remember my words, my Adhd brain getting the better of me there today. A spiritual storyteller. I know a bit about some of the lovely work that you do, but tell us a bit about what it is you do, and your irregularness in that.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): So I have been a published author for over 20 years, and that's where the storytelling starts.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): I was 1st published in extremely steamy romance, and that's where I wrote for many years, and roughly, oh, gosh! Time has lost all meaning, but probably about 7, 8 years ago

Kit Caelsto (they/them): I started getting kind of burnt out on the romance. And I went, what does my heart really want to write, which, if you follow the publishing industry, especially self publishing these days, that is like not the question to ask, because that's not writing to market. And you know, trying to trying to get what the readers want. What I really wanted

Kit Caelsto (they/them): was horse stories for horse crazy kids who grew up and never grew out of that horse Crazy phase.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And so I started writing what my equestrian fiction I started with the Noble Dream series which I called my Wine and horses, books, bunch of middle aged. And I can say that because I'm also middle aged. But you know women in their thirties and forties who are dealing with family situations, and they're trying to make something they're trying to, you know, compete competitively with their writing.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): and just deal with all those things because I still love young adult horse fiction, the teenage horse books. But I also know that I wanted to see myself reflected in those books.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And so I and so that was my I guess my 1st step towards irregularity is is following my heart. And so

e next step happened in about: 2021

Kit Caelsto (they/them): and I have

Kit Caelsto (they/them): been dealing. And then shortly thereafter I dealt with a big burnout. And so what has come out of that is, first, st a neurodivergent diagnosis multiply neurodivergent.

Jenn Wilson: Yep.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Second is realizing that I am non-binary trans masculine.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And that changed everything.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And so I channeled my storytelling 1st of all to continue to write the stories that I wanted to write. So I write equestrian fiction and fantasy, and secondly.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): I started feather main soul.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): and through feather main soul I offer spiritual storytelling because one of the processes that I went through that I know a lot of late. Diagnosed, neurodivergent people went through is unraveling all those stories. I spent 40 years thinking that I just didn't human right? And I just didn't work right. And all of a sudden it's like, No, this is how your brain works. And you're it's you're working perfectly fine. It's the world that's not set up for you.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): So and so I'm combining that with, I'm a master's student in religious studies with my love of religion and spirituality, because I see everybody out there asking, How can I help autistic or Adhd, or just neurodivergent people like be more productive or do more? And I went, wait a minute. Who's helping them connect with themselves. And so that's what I do at feather main soul.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, oh, and that's and it's such beautiful work that. And so important. And I I really, you know, I've been through similar journey, as you know, Kit of, you know, of working out my adhdness at age 50, and also my gender queerness. Sort of coming to terms with that, you know since then as well, and that sort of process of layers of getting to know yourself as you describe.

Jenn Wilson: Really big and important things about yourself. And and I guess that, like you're like

Jenn Wilson: I get. You know, there's the cliched thing, isn't there of autistic special interests.

Jenn Wilson: Your special interest was always the equestrian stuff, and the horse stuff.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Yes.

Jenn Wilson: You know, and you love that. And that's really huge part of who you are. And you've brought that into your writing, into your way of life and into also the spirituality. I know that you, the way you work is very sort of centered around relationships with animals and the countryside around you. And that sort of thing, isn't it?

Kit Caelsto (they/them): It really is. So

Kit Caelsto (they/them): there's a big discussion right now going on in the equestrian community about like deifying horses. And there's so much, you know, equestrian guided coaching

Kit Caelsto (they/them): the way I work with horses. I have what I call my sacred herd of horses. My personal goddess is Epona, the horse goddess, and so I take care of this herd, partly in homage to her. I have a herd of 5 horses.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And I don't ride. I had a horrible fall when I was a teenager, and just never got back in the saddle. Lots of stuff there. But I'm basically one of the horses.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): I go out there and I have to, you know, and I I set my boundaries. I'm like, remember, I'm squishy, and you're not, you know. But the

Kit Caelsto (they/them): the way I work through them is just basically having a relationship with another being.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Which then can help you, which has helped me quite often. I'll be like, oh, I'm dealing with this situation with this horse.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Oh.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): this situation is echoed in this, in that situation, and then starting to see the echoes. And so I work a lot with horse wisdom, not so much setting the horses up on a pedestal, but as equals and as co-creators in this journey.

Jenn Wilson: It's fascinating. I know that my specialism and my area of of you know my special interest is consent work.

Jenn Wilson: and I have 2 rescue dogs.

Jenn Wilson: and one of those rescue dogs in particular, has obviously had some massive trauma in her life before she came to live with me.

Jenn Wilson: which means that

Jenn Wilson: if I try to put a lead on her collar and take her for a walk, which is what we're supposed to do with our dogs when we have dogs.

Jenn Wilson: She shuts down, she shakes, she just she cannot have a lead put on her.

Jenn Wilson: There is something horrific that happened in her past, and and so, after, you know, a couple of months of her living with me, and attempts every now and then at that sort of thing, despite advice to the contrary, I've allowed that, and just gone right well, she can run around in the garden, in the yard, out the back. She's really happy, and I have learned so much from that relationship with that dog about

Jenn Wilson: trauma and acceptance, and the slow pace of healing, and the way that

Jenn Wilson: consent, my thing, you know plays out in relationships is not to sort of go. I need to cajole and coerce and keep encouraging this dog to do what dogs are supposed to do, but instead to let her be the being that she is, and heal from her stuff in her way, and see her that way.

Jenn Wilson: And so that's where I'm resonating with what you're saying about your herd of horses that you're part of, and seeing these animals as not something completely other than us as human beings, but as fellow beings that we can connect with in the world

Jenn Wilson: is, that is, that.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): That's beautiful!

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, are the people that come to work with you people who already feel that way, Kit? Or is.

Jenn Wilson: is that something that they kind of learn from you, or you know, I'm really interested in in your like. When you say spirituality. You don't mean Christianity, although I know you're very studied in different religions. You mean something else, don't you? And it is about those relationships and connections and things.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): I do so I work virtually and so I don't have anybody that comes out to the farm. I live in the middle of nowhere in the middle of Missouri so, or in the southern part of Missouri. So it's very difficult for people to come to me, so I work virtually. But yes, when when I say spirituality.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): I'm referring, and I'll try not to get to academic here. But I am referring to like the numinous, or the awe inspiring, something that connects us

Kit Caelsto (they/them): to something outside of ourselves, and bigger than ourselves.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): that we may not even have a name, for I am certainly not talking about any specific tradition.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): you know. I I share my tradition.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): But yeah, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not here to push any sort of organized religion on anybody.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, yeah, and that that that connection with

Jenn Wilson: something other than ourselves, it can be this sort of esoteric notion of a kind of

Jenn Wilson: God or gods in the sky kind of thing. And it also can come through this relationship with

Jenn Wilson: the planet and the beings that we share the planet with is that right.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Oh, very much so. My spouse is a great example of this.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): although we share the same spiritual path. He's not really a religious guy. He's a science guy.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And he loves astronomy and space.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And so the same feeling that I get when I'm out with the horses of of connection and community and being, you know, in harmony with this planet and its creatures, he gets when he looks up in the sky, and he points out the different stars and planets to me

Kit Caelsto (they/them): so very. It's it's very much about just seeing yourself as connected to other people and to yourself, because I feel like I I not again, I know personally myself. But I feel like when we're

Kit Caelsto (they/them): when we're before the late diagnosis of neurodivergence, when we're just in this capitalist work, eat, sleep, work, eat, sleep, mode. We're very insular and very shut down. We're very. We're turned inwardly, but we're not really connected to ourselves. We're connected to all these stories of what we're supposed to be doing and how we're supposed to be.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And so my goal with spirituality is to open that up and to see the possibilities and to find the connections in the community.

Jenn Wilson: yeah, absolutely. And that's the beautiful thing about stories, I guess, is there's the stories that we can tell from our experience. And there's the stories of what we can imagine.

Jenn Wilson: And and yeah, so your your work is about imagining beyond

Jenn Wilson: what we're experiencing in the moment. I guess.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Yeah. So it's about taking those stories. And as you, as you said, peeling them back layer by layer.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): because

Kit Caelsto (they/them): there's there's no end to this work. I'm afraid to say there's always just going deeper and deeper and deeper should you wish to. And so it's looking at, you know. Okay, I'm told I'm supposed to be a good employee.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): What do you is that.

Jenn Wilson: I mean, that's such a massive part of you're in America. I'm in the Uk. And many nations in the world that are run on a capitalist economy. And the priority is, we are productive. We produce, we yeah, we are good workers that

Jenn Wilson: do that. Yeah.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Yeah. And then it's so, then it's imaginable. What? What does that really mean?

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And if I'm not being treated well in return, then that's a broken relationship.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): How do I set boundaries? How do I heal that relationship? And then and again, it could be something I don't want to say as impersonal as that, but as external as that to

Kit Caelsto (they/them): I don't feel like I fit into society's role as a woman.

Jenn Wilson: What does woman mean to me? What does female mean to me? What does that energy mean to me?

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And what if

Kit Caelsto (they/them): I just straddled the bright binary? What if? What if really I'm kind of more masculine? But I'm in this this, you know this body that's deemed it's it's just start playing with the what if? Which is what? What an author does, I mean? An author starts well, what if this happens, or what if this character has to deal with this.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm,

Jenn Wilson: do you think story is a way of unlocking a way of unlocking something that we just kind of can't access in other ways. It's a kind of

Jenn Wilson: structure for thinking, or is it?

Jenn Wilson: Am I? Yeah, what does it mean for you? The story part.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): What really opened my mind to this work is realizing everything as a story.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Everything is a construct.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And so for me, a story is the narrative

Kit Caelsto (they/them): that I want to make my reality, and I'm not, and I want to be very clear here. I'm not talking about, you know, fake news, or I'm not talking about lying to myself. I mean you. You can hold 2 things you can say we're dealing with a climate crisis.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And I want to do XYZ. You can. You can work with this, but it's it's finding out what holds meaning for you, what resonates with you.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): and what really resonates with your heart or with your soul or your spirit. Insert whatever word works for you there, because that's something that we are trained not to ask ourselves something to be a moment of vulnerability here. Something I'm dealing with right now is, you know.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): can I really

Kit Caelsto (they/them): provide for myself by following only my special interest? And I'm kind of wrestling with that, because all the stories. Say, No, no, you got to do it this way, and it's like, No, this is how I want to do it. And being irregular and following my own path. And so story is just what what holds meaning for you, what? What do you carry forward? And maybe what do you want to linger when you are gone?

Jenn Wilson: Hmm, yeah, because those those sort of

Jenn Wilson: socially constructed stories of you are supposed to behave this way. You are supposed to fit this mould you are supposed to present this way. You were supposed to

Jenn Wilson: be a good worker. Be a good woman, be a good, whatever it is.

Jenn Wilson: we can flip the script on those, can't we? And that's like really powerful thing to do. I think there's a you know, it's a really important mindset shift.

Jenn Wilson: because the systems do tell us that that we can't do the things we want to do, and that there's not enough worth in them, and that people won't value it, and that we're not good enough, or we're, you know, nobody, you know, or nobody's going to pay for that. And and then there's a whole load of stories about

Jenn Wilson: what it means to earn money as well.

Jenn Wilson: and I know that's something that you and I've talked about in the context of the work that I do. The idea of value exchange that you know you're not an evil capitalist by

Jenn Wilson: earning money inside a capitalist system.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Definitely and divorcing or separating your worth from that money.

Jenn Wilson: Yes. Yeah.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And and making sure that you know, regardless of whatever happens in the world around you, because the world always changes. That's the only thing that stays the same is that it changes. Is that you have innate value. You have innate worth, and that's something that I've really wanted to bring into the the queer community.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Because, you know again, you're in the Uk. I'm in the Us. There's a lot of things happening right now, and you know. One of the things I'm working on is I want. I'm exploring the idea of holding like Reiki or Yoga circles, and there would be people that would dismiss that as very frivolous. But, again, if these are healing, relaxing modalities that help connect you with yourself, what stronger anchor can you have right now than your own, your own self, or your own inner compass.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, absolutely like, I think there's an awful lot of emphasis in ourselves and in the world around us about

Jenn Wilson: when we talk about making a difference in the world. We can end up emphasizing the work that we do for everyone else, and the sort of size and scale of the impact we can make. You know, I helped this number of people to change this number of things. Or I built a thing. Or I created a thing

Jenn Wilson: and actually forget about our own liberation in that, and the importance of of that in changing.

Jenn Wilson: if we want to. If we want to be the change, we want to see in the world, then that includes me, and it includes you right.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Right. Yes, and and liberation is really, when at the core of most spiritual traditions.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): When you look at Yoga philosophy, when you look at Buddhism, there's a liberatory tradition there, whether it's escaping Samsara, whether it's you know, finding Nirvana. What! When you look at

Kit Caelsto (they/them): To to dive into my studies a little bit. When you look at the origins of Christianity.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): you know I would say that it is not what a lot of us, especially here in America, hear about. It's a lot of the work that's being done in in South America. It's a lot of the. It's a lot of liberatory work to help people

Kit Caelsto (they/them): find new communities, new ways of being not out there, not in some future. You know time right here right now where we are. If we work together, you know, I may sound a little naive, but even now I still feel like. If we work together, we can make that world that we want to live in.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah. And and it might be in a small way, and in a small corner of the world or in threads across the Internet like you and I have have connection.

Jenn Wilson: but that's got to ripple out right.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Believe everything we do. We do ripples out. I believe that

Kit Caelsto (they/them): because we're not, we're not. We're not little people in a petri dish.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): We live in communities.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): we, we have the Internet, which brings us so much closer than I think. Many of us, especially, you know our age, ever thought possible.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): you know the changes that many of us have seen have just proven just how small this world is.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, yeah, Kit, if you were going to

Jenn Wilson: advise or suggest or invite someone who is coming to this podcast and is like.

Jenn Wilson: not a spiritual person at all, and is a very sort of pragmatic kind of a person

Jenn Wilson: into the value of

Jenn Wilson: spiritual storytelling, and and give them some kind of prompts or ideas about stuff that they could think about, or ask themselves, that might get them opening up to the kinds of things your work brings.

Jenn Wilson: What sort of places would you start with that? What sort of things would you suggest.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): So the 1st thing that I would do is remind them that spirituality is broader than we think.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): and it encompasses it encompasses religion. But it's bigger than religion.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): So again, it's community. It's that moment where you and a good friend go out for an afternoon, and you have maybe a cup of tea or a cup of coffee, and you're just. You're chatting away. And obviously you look at the you're watching. You're like, Oh, my goodness, you know 3 h have passed.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): That's a spiritual connection.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And and again, for that pragmatic person. All you're doing is just hanging with with your friends, with, you know, having an afternoon, maybe to kind of decompress. So that's where I would start is to remind them that we have those spiritual moments hopefully, quite often in our lives, or at least often enough, that we can recognize them.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And then the next thing I would do is not go too deep if they didn't want to. But basically say.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): what stories do you believe about yourself what you know. What do you believe? So you know I'm a good employee. I'm a good mother. I'm a good father, I'm a good parent. I'm a good

Kit Caelsto (they/them): you know. I'm compassionate.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): You know? What are those stories? And then

Kit Caelsto (they/them): how do you feel about those stories?

Jenn Wilson: Hmm.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): You know. Do those stories lift up your heart? You go. Yeah.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): do they? Or do they feel like a job that somebody handed you.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: And that's in there, isn't it? You know I could be a good person, a good person, whatever the heck that means, you know, I should be.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, I can hear it in the between the lines. There, that's a great question of, yeah, how do you feel about those stories? Yeah.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And here comes the cat.

Jenn Wilson: You've got your cat there and coming out. It's always nice to see people's animals around them.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Yeah, I think, yeah, he's gonna lay down on the desk. So it's okay.

Jenn Wilson: As long as he doesn't switch off our recording, we're all good.

Jenn Wilson: So yeah, so what stories are they hearing themselves telling themselves.

Jenn Wilson: How do they feel about those stories? Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: And so. And I guess then what choosing which stories they want to.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Magnify and choosing which stories they want to kind of question, and.

Jenn Wilson: Maybe so.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Exactly, you know, when you you know, I think everybody can relate to having a job that just

Kit Caelsto (they/them): doesn't work well, that you. You do it because you need the paycheck, and that's about it. And so

Kit Caelsto (they/them): for many people, when you have that job situation, there starts to be the grumbling. You know

Kit Caelsto (they/them): they don't notice me. They don't recognize me. I could be doing better. Those are stories, too.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And then, you know, okay, well, does. Does ruminating like that help you? How does that make you feel? And just developing that internal compass that we're all kind of told to suppress.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm.

Jenn Wilson: yeah, like, I remember actually going back some years when I was struggling with anxiety and a therapist. I think it was a Cbt. Therapist saying to me, what's the story you're telling yourself right now? Because anxiety, or triggers, or past traumas and things can have us in a loop? Can't they of going? It's

Jenn Wilson: oh, yeah.

Jenn Wilson: And oh, my goodness, this small thing has happened, and it means all these big, terrible things are about to happen, because

Jenn Wilson: for whatever reason, that's a reality that that feels real and feels

Jenn Wilson: present and scary for us, either because of past traumatic experiences, or because the world tell us, tells us that that bad stuff's coming, or whatever it is, and that anxiety comes because it's got beyond a kind of rational or pragmatic fear, and into a sort of overprotective kind of a fear.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): it.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And and that's where that's where I feel like. So I am very big on not pathologizing or not using like Yoga or meditation as a cure.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): But I feel that tools like Yoga and meditation. I'm currently doing a lot of deep work with the rain meditation where you recognize, allow, investigate, and nurture.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): which is just.

Jenn Wilson: 10 rain, in.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Rain.

Jenn Wilson: Nice.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): So it's recognize the situation. So say, Hey, this is going on in my head.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Allow, which is no judgment, no shame just, hey? I am feeling stressed about X.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Investigate. Well, what could help me not feel stressed about X.

Jenn Wilson: Yep.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And then nurture, which is, it's okay to feel stressed.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And it's okay to take steps to not feel stressed.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): So yeah,

Kit Caelsto (they/them): I just oh, I just took my book inside. Otherwise I'd have like a book with the title. But yeah, it's it's called rain, like rain falling from the sky. RAIN meditation and it's you know.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And again, meditation like spirituality, isn't sitting there with your fingers and going oh, it can! It can be! That can be meditation. But meditation can also be just a long walk.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): It can be. It can be just sitting and going. Okay, what's going on in my body right now? I don't feel right. What's going on.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And I find as somebody with really bad anxiety, I find that just stopping and saying, Hey, what's going on right now

Kit Caelsto (they/them): allows me to recognize when those triggers get hit.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): and then it allows me to be okay with that. So then I could bring myself down. And that's where the Yoga, and the Meditation, and some of the storytelling, or even just going and spending time with the horses. You know that sort of thing that works with that, and you know, if you don't have horses, substitute your dog, your cats, your kids, whatever whatever you need. At that moment.

Jenn Wilson: Free discovery.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Just reminding yourself you're not alone.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Because so many of those stories and those anxious fears come from feeling so alone.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Because we feel like we have to take care of everything alone.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): That we're the only ones who can fix it.

Jenn Wilson: Oh, you're so right? And I think that

Jenn Wilson: I think that our need as as creatures as human creatures for connection and for

Jenn Wilson: meaningful connection with one another is a big part, and it's a deep human need, just like shelter and food and basic safety.

Jenn Wilson: And so when we feel alone and isolated from that connection, for whatever reason we're bound to feel

Jenn Wilson: not great.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Yes.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: So for you, meditation is is about finding, you know, allowing yourself that space to to kind of recognize that you're not actually totally isolated, and on your own, and.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Correct, because again, I live in a very rural area. I also live in an area where I don't feel that I can safely be out as a non binary gender. Queer person. In fact, I go by my dead name out when I'm out in public, and so for me, although I have loads of community online, I have my spouse. I have some friends, although they live in another state.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): It can feel very isolating. And so for me, like using Reiki to allows me to connect with the universal energy which reminds me that, hey, there are things out here that are bigger than all of us.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): You know, meditation reminds me that I have the tools to go inside and connect with myself, and then that centers me. So then I feel better able to connect with other people.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): One of the best things I love to do is go out on social media when I'm kind of feeling jangled and all anxious and just start giving compliments.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Hey? That's a great shirt. I love your hair.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): because not only does that help me feel connected to other people, but it helps them realize that, you know they could. They get to hear some good stuff, too.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We're putting putting that connection out into the world and just feeling it does come back. And it can feel a little bit scary to do. But it does come back, doesn't it?

Kit Caelsto (they/them): It. It does, and it's as somebody who it has. That social anxiety.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): you know, giving somebody a compliment is probably one of the safest things you can do.

Jenn Wilson: Okay.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Because who's gonna get mad at that? And if they do that says a lot about them and something.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): You.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): But yeah, I mean nobody. Nobody gets mad when you give them a compliment.

Jenn Wilson: Kit, that's it's so lovely to think about these really simple and gentle and

Jenn Wilson: and human and natural ways that we can connect that are so much a part of you and the work that you do and the writing that you do. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you today. If people want to find out more, maybe read some of your books or find out about the work you do at Feather main soul. Where should they go Googling, or looking on the Internet to find you.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): So my author work. All my genres with the exception of the really steamy stuff, is at Kit author com.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): If they want to.

Jenn Wilson: Yep.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): author.com. If they want to read the other stuff, just reach out. I'll tell you

Kit Caelsto (they/them): And for feather Maine soul it is feathermanes.com. And I do have a free circles of connection

Kit Caelsto (they/them): meditation that people are welcome to sign up for on the website. And again, I'm thinking about putting together some circles. So I also have a survey on my website for that as well.

Jenn Wilson: Amazing.

Jenn Wilson: So if anyone wants to get into Kit's brilliant forms of meditation and connection, that's where you can find them on the Internet, Kit. Thank you so much for being with us today on the irregular humans. Podcast

Jenn Wilson: and I will see you again soon bye.

Kit Caelsto (they/them): Bye.