Activism and Action - guest Nikki Brooker

Transcript Start Time:: 00:29:49

Transcript End Time: 00:29:50.800

Jenn Wilson: Hi everyone and welcome to today's episode of the irregular humans. Podcast with me. Jenn Wilson, my guest, today is Nikki Brooker, Aka, the anti-racist. Mum Nikki's an incredible advocate for equity and inclusion, and a really brilliant person when it comes to working with young people

Jenn Wilson: and advocating for her own young person, but I'll let Nikki tell you her story herself. So Nikki, welcome.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Hi, thank you so much for having me join you today. I really appreciate the opportunity.

Jenn Wilson: It is, it's great. So tell us your irregular journey. Tell us about you.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): So. I asked my daughter what makes me irregular, and she said everything. You are one of a kind, and I think a lot of that stems from I have always been, you know, as a child I was considered odd as a teenager. I was labeled Eccentric.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): and so you know as a child. I remember being in Spain on a holiday, and my mum was pregnant. I've got 2 siblings.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): and I was stood outside the villa in Spain, and I loved people. I love people. I love talking to people. I've never been one of these people that have been fearful of people, and I was 8 years old, and I'm stood on this hill outside the villa, and I'm talking to every Spanish person walking past.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Hi! I'm Nikki, and this is my sister, and my mum's pregnant, and the baby's due in so many weeks, and like just for hours, and my mum had to keep like pulling me back in, and then.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): as a teenager, I was involved. I like went skating, and I used to go to a drop-in center, and then this Mp. Was at my Youth Club, talking to my youth worker about how the UN. Convention on the right of the child, and how the Uk Government had ratified it, and

Nikki Brooker (she/her): that he was going to set up a Uk youth Parliament, and I was like just such a like mouthy, antagonistic teenager. I was like, what do you mean you're going to set up a Uk youth, Parliament? You better effing involve young people from the start, and he was like, well.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): like, why don't you make sure that I do like get involved? And that was it like? And with my neurodivergent brain I became hyper, focused on the UN convention, on the right of the child, and particularly Article 12. So I used to go up to the House of Commons, and

Nikki Brooker (she/her): once a month, on a Wednesday to advocate and hold these Mps accountable, and you know, at 1 point for months I was the only young person in that room, and they would make these excuses that they didn't have time to do things, and I'd be like, what are you talking about? You've had a whole month. I've been at school. I've worked a Saturday job. I've done my homework.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): You know. How on earth can you tell me you didn't have time to do whatever you'd said in the meeting previously that you would do, and whilst all of that was going on, I was

Nikki Brooker (she/her): living in a village

Nikki Brooker (she/her): next to a farm which in the summer every year would have, or from, you know, from March till November, would have pickers from around the world. Come. And

Nikki Brooker (she/her): okay, dude

Nikki Brooker (she/her): seasonal agricultural work. Now, as you can imagine, southeast of England, there's what I would call a siege mentality that has always existed in this part of like. All through my whole childhood there's been this. Oh, we don't want outsiders here. We don't want outsiders so growing up.

Jenn Wilson: I grew up in Hampshire, sorry Hampshire borders, and it is quite a sort of well Conservative, with a small C as well as often voting conservative with a big C kind of part of the world, isn't it? Yeah.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Yeah. And this mentality of we don't want anyone outside coming in. And

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): So we'd have these pickers. And I had a Saturday job working in the local post office, but in the like the shop part of it, not the Post Office part, and everyone would come in. Like all these old people, everyone moaning about the pickers, any problem in the village, it was the pickers fault.

. Of these people. I was like: 1314

Nikki Brooker (she/her): A lot of them were Eastern Europeans, from like countries Soviet countries that were dismantling. You know I had Lithuanian people and Russian people teaching me how to swear and Polish people, and you know you're a teenager. You want to learn how to swear. But there were people from like South Africa and Australia, and different, you know, all over the place, and it was to me it was really interesting.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): And then so I became a bit of an oddity at my you know I was a loner, I would say. At school I used to flip between different groups, and then I got involved. What made me even more of a loner was. I got involved with this organization called Peace one day.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): and they came. They were a campaign to create the 1st or the UN global, the day of global ceasefire and nonviolence. And the leader who's still leading. It is a guy called Jeremy Gilley, and he came to a Uk youth Parliament steering group meeting and talked about what he was trying to create. And I again. That was, you know, like we can change the world like we need peace. And he was telling me, you know, never in in a day of human history. Is there

Nikki Brooker (she/her): ever being a cessation of violence? And you know, peace one day would enable that to happen. So I you know, neurodivergent brain, I'm like, right. Got to do that. Got to be involved in that. Got to be involved in the youth Parliament gotta make it, you know. We can create a better world for everyone, and that was it like, and I would get. I would have youth Parliament stickers. And on the odd occasion I got invited around someone's house. I'd sticker their bathroom or their house

Nikki Brooker (she/her): with Uk youth Parliament stickers, and and I used to. There was a nightclub in Maestone that would do free, you could have free hire of the nightclub for your birthday party. So then, because the UN. The proposed date at the time for the UN. Day of global ceasefire was the 21st of September

Nikki Brooker (she/her): and my birthday is the 18th September. So what I would do is I'd have these supposed birthday parties, but they were to raise awareness

Nikki Brooker (she/her): of peace one day in this nightclub, and so many times I think I did it 2 or 3 years in a row, but we didn't make enough money on the bar, so the guy would always kick us out early. But I'd have a projector, and I'd have the peace one day Logo and I'd be trying to tell everyone that we've got to support Peace one day, and I started doing events in because I was involved in the youth Forum in the in the park, in Benchley Gardens. We do these

Nikki Brooker (she/her): events in on the bandstand to raise awareness of peace one day and yeah. And eventually I ended up in London, living in in London and doing

Nikki Brooker (she/her): being at uni and doing peace one day and Uk youth, Parliament stuff, and I ended up coordinating all these different events. 43 events, I think, while I was at Uni across the Uk for and an Mp. I think his name is Lembig Opic. He branded me around that time as like I think we were at the Cumberland Hotel in Marble arch for the 1st annual sitting. And he was like, You're a bit of an eccentric young person. So I've always been that odd person.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Yeah, yeah.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): And then, yeah. And then I worked for Kyp.

Jenn Wilson: I just I was just gonna say, like, I guess, was there a bit of you that felt like a bit of an outsider.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Always, always.

Jenn Wilson: So that when these pickers were coming in and they were the outsiders, they were kind of like your people that you.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Yeah.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): yeah, definitely. And I actually, you know, like, you wouldn't let your 16 year old child. Now go to Poland for a holiday, having never met the parents never having a phone call with the parents. But you know, like there's so the summer after I so I turned 16 in the September, and then the Christmas. After that I went to Poland to stay for 2 weeks with a with a picker that was in her early twenties, and I was. That was what I wanted for my birthday. I'm going to Poland for Christmas.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): That is the next school holiday, and you are not telling me. You know I was a very stubborn teenager. There was nothing ever going to stop me. Once I'd put my mind to something.

Jenn Wilson: I see that dedication still in you now, with the work that you're doing now. So if we fast forward a bit to, you've done all this amazing stuff as a teenager, and you're coming into adulthood. And so how? So? What are the things that led you to be doing? Anti-racist mums work now?

Nikki Brooker (she/her): So I'd always been interested in so working for Uk. Up in the London region. I did a lot of work with the Metropolitan police trying to teach them. We introduced. It was a standard operating procedure to get them to not be scared of talking to young black men in the streets of London, and then I went to Australia, and I had a like

Nikki Brooker (she/her): I suppose it was like an epiphany moment I wanted. I'd studied social policy at Uni, and I'd studied

Nikki Brooker (she/her): as part of social policy about aboriginal people, and how my learning from that university was that they were like a living Museum, and that they were a dying breed. You know the colonisers view of aboriginal people. They're a dying breed of people. So I've gone to Australia, and I did a speech about youth participation at their first, st ever National Youth Affairs Conference, and I had all these different youth workers from across the whole continent of Australia talk to

Nikki Brooker (she/her): me. And one of the guys that I spoke to was an aboriginal elder, and I like had this chat, and we got on really well, and I said, Oh, I want to go and meet some, you know. Go out, Bush. I'd love to do some youth work out bush, and he's like, let me just pick that a bit. Is that your white privilege, your white Saviour complex like? Let's go and have a chat. And we ended up, and I traveled around a bit, and then when I got to Darwin, I contacted him

Nikki Brooker (she/her): and he really helped me unlearn my conditioning basically helped me see my privileged position, and helped me see this colonial narrative, that we are fed as British people, and how condescending it was of me to want to go out bush to to view this

Nikki Brooker (she/her): supposedly dying breed of people, not actually because I wanted to learn from them, not actually because I valued their culture, not for any other reason than I'd read at Uni in a textbook that they might one day be extinct, which is all you know, all at the hands of the British Empire so and that that his leadership and his guidance, you know, really

Nikki Brooker (she/her): it changed me. And then, because of him him changing me, and because of him, seeing that I

Nikki Brooker (she/her): had broken my, you know, like my Imperialist blinkers had been broken. He then advocated for me to go out bush with another organization. And I did. And you know it was a an amazing, and I went there humble. I went there to learn. I went there to respect

Nikki Brooker (she/her): the children, the elders, the culture, and that changed my whole experience of Australia, and, in fact, to the extent that when I ended up back on the east coast. I really hated the East Coast after being on all these in all these different remote locations, because I also lived on a cattle station at one period for a month, which was and the jilries and the jackeries really thought I was very odd, because.

Jenn Wilson: The 2 of the rooms and the.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): The Australian version of cowboys and cowgirls that's

Nikki Brooker (she/her): and I arrived on the cattle station, got off the bus, walked the 45 min from the because 4 h the cattle station was from the nearest town and got off. The bus walked the hour from the bus, stop to the like. The homestead, and the 1st person I saw was a guy called James, and I spoke to him, but he was an aboriginal man. That was the mistake that

Nikki Brooker (she/her): made. I treated him like a human being over the whole month I was there. The jilrous and the jackaroos despised me. I was the oddest person I didn't. They wouldn't call me by my name. I was the domestic

Nikki Brooker (she/her): and I was yeah. It was like every night in bed. I would like write in my diary like this is torture, but I will stick it out if I can stick this out. I can do anything in life like it was. But you know it was an amazing experience, because I got to through like connecting with James and the other indigenous 1st Nations people on the cow station. I got to go to like a little bit of land that they'd won back

Nikki Brooker (she/her): and meet that community. And yeah, I just I loved. And so then, when I came back, I did some work in Tower Hamlets as the Girls and Young Women's Development Coordinator, and I realized I didn't know much about Islam, and I eventually ended up doing this project with Ayira, where I lived as a Muslim woman for a week, which was amazing and changed. My gave me a respect for faith and Islam.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): And yeah. And then I did various

Nikki Brooker (she/her): different like, diversity things, I suppose you would say. But there was always at the back of my mind that I don't have the right to do diversity work because I am a white woman and I shouldn't be speaking for global majority people.

Jenn Wilson: It's really interesting this to me, Nikki, because I don't know. I'm a person, you know. I'm a white person, too, and I know that in my own history I've had moments of that kind of guilt complex and like, you know, I don't. How can I? How can I speak up in an anti-racist way, am I? Am I speaking for people? And you know, white splaing and all of that, you know, and what I'm really interested in about. All of this is

Jenn Wilson: how you chose rather than learning it from a book, or

Jenn Wilson: or even there's sort of lots of types of experiences that you could have had to understand those challenges. But what you seem to have done is really actually immersed yourself in living inside someone else's culture, so that you can experience as closely as possible what their, what, their real lives and their lived experience is. Is that right?

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Yeah. Well, with the project, Muslim, that I did. That was, you know, that was really eye-opening. Because I yeah, I suppose I'd read in the papers about anti Muslim sentiment, and how badly women were treated. And it was, you know, Boris had said some horrible things around that time about Muslim women, and then I. So I'm living in London. But my parents are in Kent, and I was so I caught the train wearing a Niqab and a hijab.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): and then walked from the train station to get the bus. And, oh, my God! I like the the looks that I got, and then the bus driver wouldn't let me on the bus asked me to remove the Niqab, and I'm explaining, you know, like that. You really can't ask me to do that like you don't. You don't have the right to ask me to that. Well, people don't feel safe on the bus. Well, you know, like that is, that is their choice to not feel safe. They have believed the propaganda. That is why I'm doing this

Nikki Brooker (she/her): activity, because I am trying to, you know, break my bias and unlearn my conditioning and help me see how I can help other people that look like me understand that there's really nothing to fear from Muslim women wearing the hijab wearing the Niqab.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): So yeah, that was interesting. And

Nikki Brooker (she/her): it just gave me so much respect, because in when I'd worked for the London region had a young Muslim woman who told me that the reason she'd worn the hijab was because she loved her God so much. She didn't care about the abuse she was going to suffer. She knew she was going to get abuse, but she loved her God so much that she wanted the world to know that she was dedicated to Allah, and I had a lot of respect for her. But then.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): you know you, you don't realize the personal cost as somebody existing in a white body, with, you know, in a, in a, in a society dominated by whiteness.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): To hear that you, you think, oh, okay, yeah. You love your God. That's great, like, well done, you. But then to actually be on the receiving end of people glaring at you, walking down the street of your hometown where you were born. Because you're wearing a hijab and a nick of, and you're thinking I'm still the same person like why, and I'm smiling at people with my eyes like people that I

Nikki Brooker (she/her): like.

Jenn Wilson: Sorry.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Know me. Yeah, like

Nikki Brooker (she/her): and then I'm getting on the back light, and it's just like, Oh, my God! Like you are so dedicated to your faith

Nikki Brooker (she/her): that you put yourself through being tortured multiple times a day by willfully ignorant people who are who like Look! We've got to call it out. Our press are responsible. Our government are responsible for maintaining a narrative of division, and like we need to do to do this work, and that, I suppose, takes me to why I ended up with anti-racist Mums, because.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Actually, you know, all these voices in the back of my head over all these years of working in the community sector that have been like.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Oh, maybe it's not my place to talk about, you know. Racism, maybe. And then I did. I watched some Jane Elliott videos. And I really. And I read nice racism and white women's tears, and a few different books. After my daughter was racially abused by children, we were on holiday, and these children with a with a family that we've known since her like since she was a baby. She drunk milk on the sofa of this

Nikki Brooker (she/her): with this woman's kids. And then her kids start racially abusing my daughter. And she says, Oh, what's the problem? Like.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): I don't see the problem like you can't challenge my kids like they're not saying anything wrong.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Are you mad? Are you actually mad? And then, you know, and then, a few days later, she's screaming at me in the street

Nikki Brooker (she/her): for labeling her children as racists. And how dare I? And I'm never going to get rid of people being racist, and you're just utter nonsense like that. But that is what happens. That's the white silence and the white fragility, and the comfort that we need to protect ourselves with all the time. And I thought, you know what? Actually, it can't be global majority people from all the learning I've done, global majority people cannot be the ones taking on the burden of responsibility

Nikki Brooker (she/her): for challenging this narrative. It is, you know, it is us. We have to do the work, and I really believe you know. We have seen 4, 5, 600 years of male leadership, cisgender, heterosexual white male leadership that has seen no movement on equity and inclusion. We have an equality act that is basically a bit of toilet paper sits on a dusty shelf and actually does nothing.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): And so it has to be us women, white women, and you know, and non-binary women. We're everywhere. We are in all the spaces we've we've got some semblance of rights, even though you know terribly not nowhere near the right level of equity that we deserve. But you know, we are more privileged than global majority. Anyone from the global majority community because of our white skin. We need to be the ones challenging it. We need to be holding our families, accountable workplaces, colleagues, everyone.

Jenn Wilson: It's tricky, isn't it? That thing between the

Jenn Wilson: the individual responsibility and you're fighting a structural problem. And of course, if you took someone like Kemi Badenock, the Conservative. Quite powerful, you know, leader there, who's saying some horrific things about trans. People. For example, at the moment she has loads more privilege than you do loads of it as an individual.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Yeah, however, the structural racism still exists, that intersectionality.

Jenn Wilson: I know that on, on social media you get a lot of pushback as an ally, don't you? From people who.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): But from everyone white people are black people. I'll get fish back from everyone.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): I shouldn't be doing it. I get lots of dms telling me.

Jenn Wilson: That bit going back to being an irregular person like.

Jenn Wilson: where does that bit of like

Jenn Wilson: your your individual responsibility and your individual passion for this

Jenn Wilson: sit with like like can't like. Do you feel like one person can change the system on their own? Or is it like.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): We have to. You know there's that saying, isn't it? Be the change we want to see in the world. So we have to model the behavior that we want to see. And I teach this to young people in my youth. Work that I do is we cannot expect other people to be accountable for their actions if we're not accountable for our actions. So I'm a staunch feminist intersectional feminist. I do not shave my armpits. I do not shave my legs. I refuse to do anything like that.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): I do not feel the need. There's no benefit to my body, so I will not do that, and I will always, you know, when I'm swimming and people are ready to know we went, me and my daughter went swimming on a holiday, and all these teenage girls were looking at me. I'm ready to say to them, but why do you? I'm not going to get aggressive with them. I'm going to ask them, why do you? What benefit is there to your body? You think about that? Develop your critical thinking skills? Because but it's all of these things. You know we, you know, we have to live at the values that we have, and I am

Nikki Brooker (she/her): one of the women that was involved in the incident with my daughter. She told me I had 2 firm values. My values were rigid, so maybe my values are rigid. Maybe that is why I'm I'm so irregular because I will not deviate. This is this is me, except me, for who I am, or job on, really and if you're coming at me criticizing me.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Perhaps it's you you know. What's that saying? When you point the finger it sounds always 3 fingers pointing back at you. You want to point the finger at me. What are you? What am I triggering in you? What am I triggering in you that you could work on because I'm just me, and I'm trying to be the best version of myself and create a better world for all the children and young people like my daughter to thrive.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: so it's brilliant, Nikki and I like your passion really comes over. And and it's really great to hear all that sort of story about it being something that you you're not just sort of like.

Jenn Wilson: you know, following a trend and like making a lot of noise about an issue. This is really coming from your lived experience as a young person exploring those cultures and feeling like an outsider. So joining the outsiders to learn about them. And then, from your experience as a mum looking after your daughter, who's experiencing racism because because she's mixed race

Jenn Wilson: and and I love to do that.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Sorry to just correct you. We don't use the term mixed race, because there's only one race. There's only the human race.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Don't know what you can use mixed heritage

Nikki Brooker (she/her): you. What we prefer in this house is we prefer the Melanin scale. So she I am Melaniemic, and she is melanaceous, and her dad is melanotic, because

Nikki Brooker (she/her): the the supremacy within our society is actually, by using the term white. We are elevating ourselves initially, anyway, just through the use of language, and it creates a hierarchy of humanity, and we don't need a hierarchy of humanity if we want to decolonize our minds and decolonize our language.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): but you know I appreciate it will take time for people to to change, because, you know, 5, 600 years of being brainwashed into using language that creates a hierarchy. But yeah, if you feel more comfortable with mixed heritage, use mixed heritage, or for my daughter, we prefer melanaceous.

Jenn Wilson: And that's kind of a sort of claimed word, isn't it? Like you've like made that word.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): No, it's I haven't made that word.

Jenn Wilson: Oh!

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Other people have made that.

Jenn Wilson: Go ahead!

Nikki Brooker (she/her): I found it in my research.

Jenn Wilson: Certainly heard is, I mean, I've heard terms like people of color, cool thing to say.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Yeah, Peter, some people like people of colour.

Jenn Wilson: And people, a global majority.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Yeah. But collectively, I will use the term global majority. Because and you know, one of the reasons I use global majority is because it puts us in our place as Melaniemic people.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): because so often we are perceived to be, and we put ourselves as the norm or the benchmark of society. But we need to remember we are the global minority. So let's refer to everyone else as the global majority. And I sit in meetings at councils and things. And I refer to young people as global majority young people. And you see the people

Nikki Brooker (she/her): wriggling in their seat with discomfort.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah. And the other expression that I've heard is people who experience racism.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Yeah, yeah, I've been using is minoritized as in like, we minoritize. Yeah, and through our media and.

Jenn Wilson: Marginalized, isn't it? Rather than yeah, yeah, or othered.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Yep.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, so there's lots of different.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): I actually have a glossary of the colonial terms that I and it has reflective practice exercise to help you embed the new terms in your use of language.

Jenn Wilson: So before we wrap up this episode. And we've just given some people some really good learning. Their own language. Is there like one kind of kernel of wisdom that you would like to offer people who are listening to this podcast about

Jenn Wilson: anti-racism, and you know what, what, what you would recommend as a kind of way of being around this.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): I think we, as people from Melaniemic backgrounds, we have to accept that we are biased.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): we are, we are trained, we are conditioned for our whole life to be biased. So when somebody tells you from a global majority background that they have experienced a microaggression or something overtly racist.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): do not doubt them. Do not gaslight them. Apologize. I will do better. Help me do better like. Do not get defensive. Sit, you know, if you just breathe, do some box breathing. Sit with your discomfort for a few seconds if you need to. If you start feeling like you're getting tense, and you want to deflect or defend yourself.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): But except we, you know, I work every day

Nikki Brooker (she/her): to counter my bias. I have, you know. Yeah, I look at every bit of media that I'm absorbing, and say to myself, Where's the stereotype? Where's you know? How are they trying to condition me? Who's who's whose agenda is this bit of information fulfilling to make me dislike a certain group, or to make me buy into this narrative, and we all need to be working on doing that because every element of our society is conditioning us, as Melaniemic people, to feel superior.

Jenn Wilson: Yep, absolutely so. Thanks for that message is a really clear one. Question the bias in ourselves and in the information that we're hearing around, and that, I think, is a really really good point for not just for anti-racist work. But, you know, changing this world to be more inclusive and and accepting and kind, and connected in all the ways.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): All of these things, though, stem back to this colonial mindset, like, if we unpick everything far enough like even this stupid Supreme Court ruling about there being a binary construct of gender like it is not necessary.

Jenn Wilson: Because.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Pre-colonization. There was no binary construct.

Jenn Wilson: Object, that.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): The construct of gender is, exists solely to control us for the patriarchy to control us. The construct of marriage exists for the patriarchy to control us like this is why we have to deconstruct everything.

Jenn Wilson: Yes, because those systems are so and structurally, yeah, absolutely. Oh, Nikki, thank you so much. Been a real pleasure hearing from you today. And you have some resources. You've mentioned one of them, don't you? For people who want to learn more and practice their anti-racism, or if they've got young people that they want to support. You've got information on that sort of.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): So many different resources. Yeah, I've got like antiracism, role play cards for young people to get confident, challenging racism and microaggressions I've got.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): I'm a learning resource that helps us develop our critical thinking skills called the white noise decoder. I've got a glossary of decolonial language. I've got a pack for parents of global majority children whose schools are failing to safeguard the global majority children with the steps that they need to take to ensure that the school meets their safeguarding responsibilities. I've got so much. Oh, my yeah, and you can get to it all via the link in my Instagram

Nikki Brooker (she/her): bio, which is at anti underscore racist mums or on Tiktok. I'm at anti underscore racist, mum.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): But yeah, like.

Jenn Wilson: Great. Well, people can look you up, and I'll put those links in the show notes as well. Nikki Brooker. It's been a total pleasure. Thanks very much.

Jenn Wilson: Bye.

Nikki Brooker (she/her): Yay! See ya.