Trusting - guest Sam Milburn

Start Time:: 00:00:02

End Time: 00:30:19.440

Jenn Wilson: Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of the irregular humans podcast with me. Jen Wilson, my guest, today is the brilliant Sam. Milburn, Hi, Sam.

Sam Milburn: Hello! Hello!

Jenn Wilson: Sam is an amazing person who does some brilliant work with helping people with the visibility and their search engine optimization and that kind of stuff on the techie marketing side of things, and also Sam runs a brilliant platform around mental health and wellbeing, and I'm sure will tell us all about that. So, Sam, tell us about your irregular journey.

Sam Milburn: Yeah. Well, I I've realised, probably over the past

Sam Milburn: 3 or 4 years that I cannot let things go like I'm a real advocate when something has happened to me or someone I care about. I have to. Once I learn how to get through that situation. Once I've learned how to like

Sam Milburn: get through all those obstacles which usually involves me sort of pestering people incessantly, because I don't take no for an answer when there's something unfair going on. I then have to impart that knowledge with other people so they can take advantage of it. I can't keep that information to myself and like some people see that as you being like a bit of a troublemaker, and I completely disagree with that, because I've helped so many people.

Jenn Wilson: And and like is that is that coming from like a neurodivergent experience, Sam.

Sam Milburn: I think it is so. I'm I'm Adhd, my son's autistic

Sam Milburn: There was some. When I had my Adhd diagnosis, the Assessor did say, like looking at my past. There are autistic traits in there, but I never explored it. But I think when I when I think of neurodivergency, I don't know what you think, Jen, but it's almost like this big mixing pot. It's really hard, anyway, to differentiate. What's Adhd what's asd? And we know that a lot of people are both, anyway. But I do, I do think, yeah, there's that that

Sam Milburn: sort of justice, sensitivity, kind of thing with neurodivergency that like that's not fair, and it needs to be fair.

Jenn Wilson: And also the Adhd. Hello! Me, too. You know that. And once I've got my being up on it about something, I will not let it go, and I will keep telling people about it and sharing it. And yeah, so totally. So you embrace that, and you never let people shut you up when you've got the bit between your teeth.

Sam Milburn: Yeah, absolutely. And it started. So it started with

Sam Milburn: sort of dog training. So I got this border collie and I had a border collie as a kid, and my husband had a border collie as a kid, and everyone said, Don't get a border collie. They're really really hard work because they're in. They're herding dogs, you know. This is their breed.

Sam Milburn: They're working dogs. They're really hard. And I was like, Well, I like a challenge. I don't want a boring dog. I don't. I don't want a dog that's going to sleep all day. So I got this border collie, he ended up being really reactive, not just to other dogs, but to people as well. And I did all the right things. I did all the right training things that I was told to do by all these dog trainers, and it didn't work.

Sam Milburn: And then I found out more about reactivity and dogs and what it actually really is, and how you really can prevent it and also fix it. So I did dog training qualification in it.

Sam Milburn: What is it? Okay?

Jenn Wilson: Cool, I deep dived into it, and through that journey I then started a blog.

Sam Milburn: I started talking about my experience and what dog reactivity really was, and how a lot of the dog training out there that, you see, is very traditional. It's very old fashioned. It doesn't look at a dog's brain so much. It sort of looks at a dog as a robot. It's very interesting. The similarities between sensory sensitivities and neurodivergency in animals and people.

Jenn Wilson: I mean, we could, we could totally go off on a separate podcast, episode about dogs and what they teach us. Because I have 2 Romanian rescue dogs, and one of them is deeply traumatized, and I've had a 4 years, and I still can't get get a lead on her without her shutting down completely and

Jenn Wilson: know. And and so I've learned so much about how trauma responses manifest.

Sam Milburn: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: From working with her over a long period of time, you know. Yeah. So.

Sam Milburn: It's incredible. I mean, they have a brain. We have a brain. Our brains are very similar. They've got the same kind of like functions and things.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Sam Milburn: So once I've discovered this and started doing things which worked really well. I was like, my God, I have to blog about this journey, because not only that, it's a very. It's a very emotional journey. When you have a reactive dog that you can't take out for walks that you can't take to the pub. It feels embarrassing. My mental health like really

Sam Milburn: didn't do very well from it. I got quite depressed, and I thought that I'd done something wrong. And all these Facebook groups out there were all about dog training and shaming people into, like, you know, for things they weren't doing right. And you must do this. You must do that. It's very confusing and conflicting.

Sam Milburn: So I thought, I'm going to set up a Facebook group which is for emotional support. So there's no

Sam Milburn: no unsolicited advice. If you want advice, you ask for it. If you don't, you just want to let off steam. That's what the group is for. So I sent this group up, and obviously I connected it from my blog. And as someone who's a marketer.

Sam Milburn: I didn't really do a lot of optimization to my blog. But what I soon realized is that I was getting traffic to my blog, and that traffic was then converting into people joining my group and eventually over time

Sam Milburn: Facebook picked up on that. And my group grew very quickly to sort of 4,000 people, and it's tapered off, but I get consistently get people coming in there. And so my dog, Trainer and me are now very good friends, and so then off the back of that. We created like a dog training reactivity sort of paid membership very, very low, low cost membership. And we're doing some amazing things like this year. We're going to do a new program for people, but that all came off

Sam Milburn: like me advocating and me putting this different perception of reactivity out there because I wanted to share it with the world and make sure people didn't feel that shame and and stuff around it. And people in the group comment all the time about how the group is so different to the other Facebook groups out there.

Sam Milburn: And that's just yeah, just not letting something go.

Jenn Wilson: And it. Oh, I can really relate to what you're saying, you know, like, because

Jenn Wilson: obviously, a lot of my activism is around gender. And the situation that trans and non binary people are finding themselves in at this time in the world.

Sam Milburn: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: And but my work isn't just about that, you know. Like I work, I work right across any kind of purpose-led business people who are exploring their life and trying to find their purpose and their direction, and all of those things that I do. It's much much broader than the gender piece. But I've found that when I'm really speaking out about those things and calling allies in, as you know, I do.

Sam Milburn: That actually brings people into all of the things that I do in the way you're describing. Yeah.

Sam Milburn: yeah, absolutely. It has a knock on effect, doesn't it? People get to know you and know everything else that you do? Yeah. And

Sam Milburn: and I think as well that when you, when you start out like. Obviously, there'll be lots of different people and business owners and things listening to this, I think when you start out doing something that you're really passionate about, and don't even think about turning into a business. I never thought in a million years I'd make any money from what I was doing that wasn't the intention. The intention was, I want to help people. When you genuinely want to help people

Sam Milburn: things fly when you, when you try and make it too perfect, and you try and turn it into a business from day one that doesn't, doesn't you know, and try and do all the things perfectly. It it doesn't work. And I think that's why regular works, doesn't it?

Jenn Wilson: Absolutely. Yeah. And it is about like going. You know, I was talking with another podcast. Guest about about the that kind of

Jenn Wilson: the the kind of advice you get, and it sounds like you were getting it in dog training. But you also get it in the kind of online business space where it's like. Here's the one true way to do it.

Jenn Wilson: And if you do it exactly like this, you will make a million dollars or a million whatever. And it's like.

Jenn Wilson: no, it doesn't work like that, because people aren't like that.

Sam Milburn: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: And and whether it's you running your business or the people that you're trying to help and reach and support with your business.

Jenn Wilson: We're not one size fits all. Really, we're not.

Sam Milburn: No, those blueprints don't work today. They might work for a few. And we say, I say this in dog training you'll always get that one person that says, Oh, my dog was fine. I socialized it and did this, that and the other, and it never became reactive. And you're like, well, yeah, that's because you're the exception to the rule, you know. You don't see very many of them, you know. If you do. XY, and Z, you'll yeah.

Jenn Wilson: So, you know, there is some kind of common sense, advice, and guidance. And actually, when you unpack a lot of business advice, it's more or less saying some of the same kinds of things, you know, like Find, you know, have have something to offer. Find the people that want it, tell them about it. Offer them it for some money, you know, like, it's not really rocket science. But like, yeah, this is the actual way to do it. And

Jenn Wilson: yeah.

Sam Milburn: Perfect ways. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then they put down everyone else's way of doing it.

Jenn Wilson: And tease.

Sam Milburn: Sell their product. That's when it's the red flag, isn't it? And they're saying everyone else is doing it wrong. And you have to do it this way.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Sam Milburn: No, no, the best business owners will actually admit that there's different ways for different people, won't they?

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Sam Milburn: Yeah, and so and that. And that's just been the story of my life. And that's where the mental health platform came from as well. So.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, tell us about that.

Sam Milburn: Yeah. So my my son,

Sam Milburn: had a really difficult time. Wasn't able to go to school, and we weren't sure why. And I won't go deep into the story because it's his story. We say it's his story

Sam Milburn: owent.

Jenn Wilson: Obviously is the watchword here, but.

Sam Milburn: But he's always very happy. He knows I have this mental health platform where I support people and talk about some of those struggles privately, but he was diagnosed with something called body dysmorphic disorder. Now, if you're listening, you don't know what that is. It's a subset of Ocd. And it's just as common. But it's not as well known about. So people don't tend to know what to look for. And so in my experience, wasn't.

Sam Milburn: I was gaslighted with his autism years ago. Wasn't gaslighted so much with the Bdd. It was just kind of seen as something else. They weren't sure what it was like. Was it agoraphobia like he couldn't leave the house, or was it Ocd. And Bdd. Has to be looked at under a very different lens? It's very, very separate from those conditions. It needs to be looked at in a very different way, especially if you're neurodivergent, too. So

Sam Milburn: this journey took like 3 years. Right. 3 years of different types of therapy me advocating through the school system through education like it's huge, it's massive. And then you bundle into that. The old

Sam Milburn: journey of a parent with the neurodivergent child, and trying to get them through education and everything which and and ehcps, and all that which is a journey in itself. And not knowing that there was much information out there. So I did what I did before. Thought, I'll do. I'll do this again. I'll start a Facebook group just where we can all chat together and see if it gets picked up in Facebook.

Sam Milburn: Now that group has now got 300 people in it. So it's a very small group. It's quite a niche subject matter, but it's very active group, and people do come in there who have children who suspect they have Bdd, or they do have Bdd, and they've all got similar struggles. We've all got similar problems with the system problems with education, because the guidelines for it are like 20 years old.

Jenn Wilson: No.

Sam Milburn: Since I've done that since I sort of started a social media account for it as well. The Bdd Foundation, which are the only charity for Bdd. In

Sam Milburn: the world, the only dedicated charity. They asked me to come and speak at one of their conferences, the International Ocd. Federation, which is the American. They're huge charity in America. When I spoke to one of their conferences, and I thought, you know what actually, I think. I probably am a little bit of an expert in this when it comes to support impairment. Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, but.

Sam Milburn: I really wanted to combine that with my business, so that I don't have to put so much time and effort into my marketing business. I can do something that's like really mental health, passionate, led as well from my experience. There.

Jenn Wilson: And.

Sam Milburn: And have those 2 things because it's so funny. My dog training stuff. I don't even see it as a business. It's always that nice.

Sam Milburn: I have a.

Jenn Wilson: That earns a little bit of money.

Sam Milburn: It's a little bit of money, and it really is. It's a tiny, it's a tiny bit, because it's a time. I don't want to grow that into a massive multi-million pound business. It's just a tiny group of people that I help every month, and they benefit. And I benefit. And I think that's fine. Don't have to grow it into something big.

Sam Milburn: But the Bdd stuff I do. I want it to be big. I want it. I want to sort of be a voice for parents. I want parents to have somewhere. They can come and feel supported and know what to do, because what happens. And this isn't just. Bd, this is lots of mental health

Sam Milburn: conditions for children, but they go and get support through the Nhs. But the parent doesn't get any support. They don't understand that condition. They need to become an expert in that mental health condition, so they know how best to support their child. 1 h of therapy a week is not enough to help that child recover, and so the parents left like, well, what do I do?

Sam Milburn: The other? However many hours of the week like, how do I not make this worse? How do I support them? How do I do this? And they might get a checklist of like 3 or 4 things they can do. But then that's it. So there's a massive gap there. So I want to try and fill that gap.

Sam Milburn: So the parents feel supported. And so they don't feel like they're making things worse or

Sam Milburn: anything like that. So yeah.

Jenn Wilson: That's so important, Sam, and what a brilliant thing it is when we can

Jenn Wilson: take the the difficult lessons that we've learned. You know the really hard fought, tough stuff.

Sam Milburn: That's the ring.

Jenn Wilson: Through. And you really are an expert in that when you've lived through that. And I think there's a whole load of emphasis on expertise that is.

Sam Milburn: No.

Jenn Wilson: I've got a Phd. In it, and I've written all the books in it, and I'm the professor of, and you know I'm not invalidating that at all. I mean, I actually work with a research group. And they're really clever people who've really, you know, geeked into one particular thing and really know brilliant stuff about it.

Jenn Wilson: and also at the same time the expertise that comes through living through something and experiencing it. I think experts by experience are such important experts.

Sam Milburn: Absolutely, because often they will have like tried lots of different things as well, which then they can offer. Well, have you tried this? Or have you tried that? Because there's never like we were saying, there's never one solution. A lot of experts will work to blueprints, because that's what they're taught.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Sam Milburn: When you combine the lived experience, you start to realize that there are different ways of dealing with things. There are different solutions, and maybe can try like

Sam Milburn: my one of my coaches. Years ago she gave me the best phrase ever, and I use it everywhere, in business and life and everything, and it started with business. But I use this phrase for everything. Now. It's like, treat it like a science experiment. Treat your business like a science experiment. Treat life like a science experiment. It doesn't have to be like one straight line, one blueprint. You can change your mind anytime you like.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Sam Milburn: You have free? Will you have choice?

Jenn Wilson: Well and absolutely and actually.

Jenn Wilson: you know, the greats of science often talk about the importance of all of those failed experiments. Yeah, you know, that's how that's how science experiments work, isn't it?

Jenn Wilson: Go right. Let's test this hypothesis. Let's let's see what happens when we drop an apple out of a tree. Oh, it goes downwards. Let's call that gravity, you know, and that is true. Until an apple doesn't fall down, something weird happens. And then okay, it's not gravity. It's some other weird thing that we haven't discovered yet, you know, because things change and evolve, and we learn more. And we

Jenn Wilson: and those mistakes. There's a lot. There's a lot of work I do in the in the arena around. Consent is getting people to recognise that.

Jenn Wilson: Yes, means yes, and no means no, but also there's a whole load of maybes, ifs, buts, and whatevers.

Sam Milburn: Same kitchen.

Jenn Wilson: Those places. And actually, the work is not at the point where you've crossed the line into harming somebody. The work is in recognizing that you're in the territory where that's possible and going. Oh, we need to take care now and navigate this more.

Sam Milburn: Thankfully.

Sam Milburn: you know, and we can make mistakes in that zone once you've got over a line, and it's actually going to really hurt somebody there. You don't want to be making mistakes.

Sam Milburn: It's not a new one.

Jenn Wilson: To be making mistakes in the place where it's safe to do that.

Sam Milburn: Yeah, that's so true. I love that. Yeah, it's just, I honestly think, like, I don't think twice.

Sam Milburn: But again, it's probably very adhd of me. But and you're probably the same like when you want to do something. And you have an idea like, okay, let's just do it and see what happens. And I think a lot of people aren't like that. And I just think, if you're if you're passionate about something, and you want to make a change, don't think oh, I can't do that because I don't know enough, or it's probably not going to go anywhere, or, you know, just give it a go. Give it a try. You have no idea

Sam Milburn: what it's going to lead to, and it can lead to such amazing things that spur you on to the next bit, and the next bit.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, and give yourself. It's giving yourself permission, isn't it? And going and knowing that you might not be perfect, you might not be the one and truly best expert at something. But you're expert at it enough.

Jenn Wilson: You're enthusiastic and passionate about it enough

Jenn Wilson: to follow your heart and and make something happen.

Sam Milburn: 100%. Yeah, it comes. It comes with experience like, the more you do it the more you start to trust in yourself. I still get loads. I get loads of imposter syndrome, but it's having that self-awareness of what that is.

Sam Milburn: and just reminding yourself those times where someone has said to. You've got that good feedback from someone. I never do it. People say you should keep like a feedback folder of like, you know, comments and reviews and things that people have said that were good about what you did to remind yourself that you are an expert.

Sam Milburn: that's that's quite a good thing to do. I always forget to do that. But yeah, it's just yeah. Trust yourself.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, definitely, definitely. Yeah. So so tell us, then, you you said before you got into the dog training and before the mental health.

Jenn Wilson: Remind me what the condition is called.

Sam Milburn: Bdd. Bdd.

Jenn Wilson: 3.

Sam Milburn: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: Or the Bdd thing, which is your your new thing, that you're growing, and next.

Jenn Wilson: and developing. And I can't wait to see what happens with that.

Jenn Wilson: you also do a kind of more conventional sort of marketing type.

Sam Milburn: Hmm.

Jenn Wilson: Work.

Sam Milburn: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: Where does that fit? With all this, you know? Like, yeah.

Sam Milburn: Well, I.

Jenn Wilson: The world.

Sam Milburn: I I so I started work at the age of 17. I somehow got myself a job in a law firm.

Sam Milburn: I was doing a business admin I've been to college for like 2 months. Hated it, decided I wanted to go and earn some money, and I went and did a business admin Mvq. And I got an interview at Law Firm, and I remember I had to take my eyebrow piercing out before I went, so I looked professional and my nose piercing out, and I was really annoyed after the interview, because when I came home I couldn't put my eyebrow piercing back in.

Jenn Wilson: Them.

Sam Milburn: But I have it now. And

Sam Milburn: yeah. And I worked there for

Sam Milburn: probably about 14 years and kind of worked my way up into marketing, and I was a little bit of a nuisance when I 1st started there, and I at 1 point I put in a grievance against my boss as well, because he was very unfair about things. And again, it was that they're very much that fairness there, you know.

Jenn Wilson: Bye.

Sam Milburn: There were times when.

Jenn Wilson: Personal sense of justice.

Sam Milburn: Yeah, absolutely.

Jenn Wilson: And right in the world. Yeah.

Sam Milburn: Yeah, 100% like, even when colleagues, you know, when I could see things were unfair with colleagues.

Jenn Wilson: Oh, yeah.

Sam Milburn: Younger ones. I say, I'll come with you. I'll come with you to this meeting like you talked about. You want to go and speak to so and so I'll come with you and hold your hand. I'll be there with you. I was always the 1st person to sort of say that and do that, and when when my son was young he was only about 2 at the time, and he was struggling with school. I just thought, you know what I'm just. I'm just not going to do this anymore. I'm not going to do this anymore. I don't

Sam Milburn: particularly love working for other people. Let's see if I could do it myself. So I I then discovered what a virtual assistant was. I'd never heard of it before and rather than go straight into marketing.

Sam Milburn: I started as a Va. And I just started doing admin and and being a virtual assistant is an is an absolutely amazing job.

Sam Milburn: but I am. I am not the best at doing admin over and over again.

Sam Milburn: Isn't not my strong point.

Sam Milburn: And I would have to work really, really hard to do it, and I did it, and I did it well. But I really wanted to do marketing. So it just slowly the marketing slowly crept back in. And I just yeah. And then I just started working for myself. And I've pretty much apart from a few other little stints, doing some other things. Pretty much been doing that for myself ever since.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Sam Milburn: And I don't think I don't think I could ever go back to working for someone. I find it very, very difficult.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, I was literally just before our call today. And this podcast. Episode won't go out for weeks, weeks, months from now. But I was literally writing my weekly newsletter and writing about because I found an old photograph of myself from about

Jenn Wilson: how many years ago, more than 15 years ago, and it was at the time when I worked in an office 9 to 5, and I had. I looked very traditionally feminine and had blonde hair, and you know, in a little Bob and I used to wear a pinstripe lady suit.

Sam Milburn: Wow!

Jenn Wilson: Briefcase and go and work in an office like 9 to 5, 5 days a week. And it made me ill, Sam, you know, like. Actually, I did that. I worked at Bradford Council earlier, Bradford Council, for about 18 months, but I ended up having to leave because it was making me unwell, because that being

Jenn Wilson: keeping those hours regularly all the time, just doesn't suit me. And also being in a big organization where what I'm doing is one tiny little bit of a and and it can't. And I can't feel the impact that I'm making.

Sam Milburn: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: It. Just. It's just destroys my soul to work that way.

Sam Milburn: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: And I think that that's true, for a lot of people who are entrepreneurs and business owners is that

Jenn Wilson: a job just doesn't really work for us, whether it is because of our life and the things that are going on in it, or because of our brains and our hearts, and the things that matter to us.

Sam Milburn: That's so true like you, saying that it's that whole like. I would always be the 1st person to make a suggestion of how you could do something better, or we could do this to make more impact, or this, that or the other.

Sam Milburn: and obviously that, you know, but having someone who doesn't know how to. You know if you're if you're a manager or boss, and you don't know how to manage an employee who's got that level of wanting to make impact. Then you can very easily dampen their spirits and make them feel not wanted or not useful, and they will go somewhere else, because obviously you can't take on every you know when I

Sam Milburn: back now and think you know, my managers can't take on every single idea I have, but they probably need a training on how to cope with a person like me on their team. Because you're going to get people. You know, there are people like me that do work in the workplace, and if they've got really good managers that know how to utilize those skills that we have, they'll fly. But

Sam Milburn: what I tend to find happens is people just get irritated by it and just find it annoying.

Jenn Wilson: Because it disrupts something. And this is the thing about being irregular, I think, is that

Jenn Wilson: if that's sort of essentially who you are because you're neurodivergent or different in some other way. But also just if it's just how you see the world, you don't need any of those labels to be an irregular kind of person.

Sam Milburn: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: When you want to do things outside of the standard

Jenn Wilson: normal average. Okay, regular way of doing things. It's disruptive.

Sam Milburn: Yeah, yeah.

Jenn Wilson: Disruptive. And there are people who can't cope with that disruption in the same way that you know Adhd brains love disruption, but like very autistic brains don't love that. And how

Jenn Wilson: different

Jenn Wilson: ways of being irregular, that have kind of forms of routine that you know they geek into different directions than.

Sam Milburn: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: Kind of thing.

Sam Milburn: Yeah, yeah, definitely, I think there is that there is that level of disruptiveness there, and wanting to needing that needing that dopamine to like, you know, want to do that thing.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm.

Sam Milburn: Like, what? Otherwise? What's the point? Like, really? What's the point in being there? You're just there to make some money like? Why, why are. It's really, and it's very nuanced. It's hugely nuanced. But it's just like, why, why would you be in a job that you really don't like?

Sam Milburn: Why wouldn't you try and change that? And obviously there's loads and loads of things behind that. And for me, I I was absolutely in a privileged position where I could leave and spend some time building up my business, and not everybody could do that. Not everyone can do that. And that's not fair that feels really unfair. I don't think anyone should be stuck in a job that they don't like, and but it happens, and it's not fair, and that upsets me.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Sam Milburn: But.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, but there are, you know, even even when your choice is between a rock and a hard place.

Jenn Wilson: you have a choice, don't you? And it's.

Sam Milburn: Sorry.

Jenn Wilson: Yes, there's enormous privilege in going. Just choose to do something different. Just choose to set up. Yeah, let let's not be those Pillocs that are.

Sam Milburn: Yeah, exactly. I don't. Wanna yeah.

Jenn Wilson: Oh, it's easy, it's not easy. It's.

Sam Milburn: Yes.

Jenn Wilson: CC. And that's where you know people like myself and yourself.

Jenn Wilson: You know, we do a lot of work that's either free or is very low ticket, and is about supporting people who are gently testing out what they what's possible for them.

Sam Milburn: Yeah, absolutely. I have people, you know, who have just started their business. And they get in my dms, and they just want to pick my brain about a few things. And you, you can tell you can tell the difference between people who want to pick your brains, who are genuinely at the start. And they're like, you know, they need help, and people who've been in it for a while and want to pick your brains.

Jenn Wilson: Want to pay you, but they can't.

Sam Milburn: Really need to pay me.

Sam Milburn: and I'm always there, for I'm always there for those people, and like you say, you know, we go and give out trainings where we can, and do everything we can to help people so that they can, you know, get into that position that we're in.

Sam Milburn: Then.

Jenn Wilson: Sam. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you today, and all of those amazing things the dog training, the I keep going the the DD.

Sam Milburn: Beady.

Jenn Wilson: I'm like terrible.

Sam Milburn: Good old acronym.

Jenn Wilson: And and your brilliant work as a as a person supporting people in entrepreneurialism and business. All of that stuff. I'll share the links in the show notes, obviously. But if but quickly, where? Where might people find you if they're just listening and they haven't got time to look at show notes. Do you want to.

Sam Milburn: Yeah, if you the place I'm on all the time. So I share stories every day. I'm always on it. I'm addicted to Instagram is Instagram. So that's Samantha Milburn marketing all. One word you can find me on there. You can search me on Facebook as well. Samantha Milburn feel free to come and, friend, request me.

Sam Milburn: yeah, that's mainly where I am. And my website, Sam Milburn, digital marketing. If you want to go on there, there's resources on there, and a little bit more about what I do as well. And the Bdd website is called beyondbdd.co.uk, you can go and check out resources on there, too.

Jenn Wilson: Fantastic Samuel burnt thanks for being on the irregular humans. Podcast and I'll see you soon.

Sam Milburn: Yay cheers, then.