Never Mind the Mess - guest Maddy Alexander-Grout

Jenn Wilson: Hi, everyone, and welcome to today's episode of the Irregular Humans podcast with me, Jen Wilson. My guest today is the wonderful Maddie Alexander Grout. Hi, Maddie!

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Hey, Jen, how are you, Melan?

Jenn Wilson: Hi, I'm great, thanks. Maddie, if you haven't come across her work before, is an ADHD specialist, a neurodivergent business and visibility coach, and an advocate for disability rights, especially for neurodivergent people, and a

Jenn Wilson: best-selling author of the book Mad About Money. So, where to start, Maddie? When it comes to being the change you want to see in the world.

Jenn Wilson: I think you very much are someone who lives by that maxim. So, tell us a bit about you, and how you've come to be doing the work that you're doing.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Yeah, so, so I spent many a year feeling like I was absolutely broken.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And it was, it was all basically around my finances, really, that things started to change.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): So, I grew up as somebody who had a very happy, happy family, happy life. Like, my childhood was really nice. You know, we weren't really, really wealthy, but we also, you know, we had two cars, because my parents lived at, you know, they worked in two separate places, so it just, it made sense. We lived in a village in the middle of nowhere.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And I didn't really, struggle until I got to secondary school.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): I'd been diagnosed dyslexic when I was 7. They thought I was blind, because I couldn't see what was going on on the blackboard, but it was just the fact that I could see it, but it was just jumbled, and it was& yeah, I struggled with that. So&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): I didn't really see myself as neurodivergent, even though I was. And really, my entire life changed when I got diagnosed with ADHD and autism aged 37.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): So, I struggled at school, I was really badly bullied by several different types of people for standing up for what I believed in, and for standing up for what I thought was right. I always had a really strong sense of justice.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And, like, the fight that I had in school was mainly over a party that, like, I went to with all of my friends. And at this party, you know, I think we were all, like, 14 years old, I think, like.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): There was a bit of booze flying around, and it was& it was a, like, all the girls were snogging, it was, like, it just seemed& it seemed like it was normal, right?

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And then on the Monday, somebody came up to me, and they were like, oh, you bunch of lezzers! Like, we heard that you were all snogging at the party, and I was like, yeah, and what's your point?

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And from that, because I admitted to something which apparently was meant to be a secret, I was, like, public enemy number one. So I struggled throughout the whole of school, and I still, kind of, to this day, you know, I will always say that, like, there was absolutely nothing wrong with girls experimenting, and what we were all doing was, like.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): a part of being a teenager, I reckon.

Jenn Wilson: ordering, and&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: Eventually, and&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Absolutely, yeah, it was& it wasn't like anybody was forced into a corner or anything like that. We were all doing it because we& because it was& because it was fun, right? And& and I& that was kind of the thing that started me off on the, like, I will always stand up for what I believe in, even if other people think I'm wrong.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm, yeah.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): there are so many times& there have been so many times in my life where I have been&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): kind of ridiculed, or& I don't want to use the word victimized, because I actually don't think that&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): despite the fact that I have actually had a victim mindset for probably the majority of my life until probably the last, like, 4 or 5 months, I used to think that everything happened to me.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): how I think everything happens for me. There is always a reason why something happens, and it's always to teach us a lesson, and we can always learn and grow if we take every single situation that has been a not particularly pleasant one, and we can work out who we are, we can work out who other people are.

Jenn Wilson: Absolutely, yeah, like, it's like stepping into your own agency, really, and not letting those experiences take that away from you, but going, okay, this bad thing has happened, what do I do next? Yeah.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Yes, yeah, and I've very recently, as well, kind of come to terms with the fact that other people's opinions of me are none of my business. And, you know, if I can't do something to change somebody's opinion, they probably weren't somebody who was meant to be in my world anyway. So I've had quite a few things. I think I was bullied in the workplace, I was bullied at uni, and it's all been because&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): People haven't understood me.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): So, my main passion and my main focus as an ADHD and hidden disability advocate is to help people to

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): advocate for themselves, but also to help to educate people on what neurodiversity looks like, and how it& it's not just a one-size-fits-all, it's not like, oh, that person's got ADHD, so they must be like this. Because actually, every single human on this planet is so, so different, and people don't necessarily realize that.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): So, in my work, I help people to be able to advocate for themselves, advocate in the workplace, run a successful business, manage their money in a way that works for their brain, but most importantly, find that self-compassion and that self-love.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): That so many people who have got ADHD don't have, because they feel like they're broken all the time, just like I did.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, it's so true. I mean, I was diagnosed when I was 50, and it was finally an answer to that question, what the hell is wrong with me? Why can't I do this? Like, everyone else seems to find it so easy, you know, and that, you turn it on yourself, don't you? And actually going, oh, there's a reason.

Jenn Wilson: There was always a reason, and it's not&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): What is the reason?

Jenn Wilson: It's not an excuse, it's not a get-out-of-jail-free card or something, but it's a reason why you're finding it harder to do things that other people appear to find.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Yeah.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Yeah, it's& I mean, I always say, it's not& it's not an excuse to be badly behaved, it's not an excuse to be, a total knob, but it is&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): It's a reason why, and there's also so many things that come into play with neurodivergence. There are things like past traumas, the things that we learn as children, the things that we learned when we were growing up.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Dysregulation, like, when you are dysregulated, you turn into somebody who you don't recognise. And when you have ADHD, that dysregulation is the cause of a lot of problems. We also overshare.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): We verbally process, we process things out loud, and sometimes that can look like you're being a bitch, or you're being a horrible person, or you're not, you know, you're not behaving in a typical way that society wants you to behave in.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): That doesn't necessarily make you a bad person. It means that you are a person who's hurting, a person who is&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): maybe, maybe grieving a person who is, struggling with& with life, and struggling with brain stuff, because there's a lot of struggles that come with ADHD.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah. I think the world tends to,

Jenn Wilson: tends to try and make things very simple and black and white. You're right or you're wrong. And it's actually& I think, whether you're neurodivergent or not, I think that many things in life are not that simple. You know, there's& there's&

Jenn Wilson: better and worse, perhaps, but not perfection or total destruction. There are so many places in between.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Absolutely, and I think also, when it comes to the work that you do as well, boundaries. Like, people who have got ADHD are not always great with boundaries. You know, we trust people too quickly, we make friends really quickly, and if somebody says they like us, then they're like, our best friends forever, BFFs, IDST, you know, like, we are& we're very much

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): like&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): kind of almost smoterers, I guess, when it comes to things like friendships. And we& we give our all, and sometimes we give too much of our all, and then it can be hard to take back.

Jenn Wilson: Yes, yeah, it is much harder to set a boundary once you've& I know that you're someone who gives a lot, for example, you know, you have&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): I'm shit at boundaries.

Jenn Wilson: Sorry, I was like&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): as well.

Jenn Wilson: So, like, you know&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): on their own.

Jenn Wilson: You have people in your membership who are only paying you 10 a month, and you're very clear about what they get for that 10 a month, but you could

Jenn Wilson: Don't get blood.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: You have an awful lot more than that when people ask. You try to be there as much as you can to help.

Jenn Wilson: And I think that's really common, but then it becomes quite hard to step back from that when you're tired, or you need a break, or you need a holiday, or you need to focus on your family, to go, actually, I can't do all of those extra things this.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): No, no, and it& but it& but it's been interesting, actually, because I&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): when I went on holiday recently, my membership didn't burst into flames and die, which, you know, I've always thought was the case, and when I've been on holiday before, I've been like, oh, I'll still do this, I'll still pop in, I'll still do my post reviews, I'll still& and this time, I was like, no, I am gonna spend some time with my family, I am not gonna work.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): If you see me on social media, it's because I've scheduled that post, and it's been done for ages, I am genuinely switching off. And it was possibly one of the best

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): times I've had, like, I enjoyed my kids, mainly. Sometimes they're annoying, they're always annoying, but, you know, I spent some quality time with them, and my son, like, only yesterday, said to me, he was like, Mummy, what was the best thing about our holiday?

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): I said it was spending time with you guys, and he said, I was going to say the same thing about you. It was really nice to spend some real quality time with you. I'm like, oh&

Jenn Wilson: He's such a sweetheart. But&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): But it is& it is important, and especially if you're running a community where& where people do require a lot of support, because I think

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): All of my& all of my members in my membership, they're all neurodivergent, they've all got their own life struggles, they've all got their own business struggles, there are&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): there are things that are going on in that world all the time where people do constantly need my help, and sometimes you do have to put a barrier up. And, you know, I had a message from somebody who was in complete turmoil while I was on holiday, and I said to them, like.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): I will take 5 minutes, and I will look at this, because I know that you're really struggling, but if it's okay, I will send you all of the results of my findings on Monday. And I did that, and I stuck to it, and they appreciated it, I appreciated it, and again, nobody died. So, it is& when you're running a community, you can often feel like.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): the world revolves around you, because it's your world, right? You know, I call it the Madiverse for a reason, because I am the center of the universe, but it's not that. It's& it's mainly because I couldn't think of anything that, like, fitted all of my many hats under one& under one umbrella, so I was like, the Madiverse covers it. Just the universe of Maddie, we're all good.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): But& but it is one of those things where, actually, if you run a& if you run a community when you've got people who are struggling, who actually support each other, then they don't necessarily need you. Like, they&

Jenn Wilson: Absolutely, that's the thing about community, isn't it?

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): It is.

Jenn Wilson: You set something up where people are relating with each other and supporting each other, and you're the&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Yes.

Jenn Wilson: You're holding that space, and you're facilitating that space, and you're setting the boundaries of that space, but you don't have to be there for every single.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: do things.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: Oh, no.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And I have flexed my boundaries a little bit. Like, I used to do post reviews, like, Monday to Sunday every single week, and then I realized how burned out I was, and I was like, actually, I'm going to do them Monday to Friday. But also, I haven't said to people, right, I'm going to review them at this time on this day. It's like, if you post a post review on one of my daily threads, I will review it at some point during the week.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): It's not going to be, like, right now, because I've& there are so many right nows in my world that I can't flex on. Like, you know, I have to go to pick up the kids at a certain time, I have to make them dinner at a certain time, I have to& I have to have my nap at a certain time, because otherwise I just can't function in the evenings. Like, I work in& in shifts, I work in patterns, I don't work like a typical person. Like, I work from, like.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): 9 till 3, and then I work from, like.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): hop past 6 to 8 o'clock, sometimes 9 o'clock, depending. So&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): I have a busy life, and I'm also incredibly visible on social media. I have a lot of people who I have to service on social media. That sounds very kinky, but, like, do you know what I mean? Like, it's&

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): I have to show up for those people because they're my followers, and they expect me to make content. That's the whole thing with being a content creator.

Jenn Wilson: So if I don't do those things, then I'm also letting those people down. So it's a case of, like.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): what's the boundary that I can set that doesn't make me a people pleaser? And I've started to say no to things, and it's so liberating. Like, and I've started to say yes to things as well that I wouldn't normally have said yes to.

Jenn Wilson: That's the thing, isn't it? It makes space for you to&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Say yes to the right.

Jenn Wilson: towards what you really care about, and what really.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Yes.

Jenn Wilson: Whether that's spending time with your children, or focusing on a new area of your business, or a new passion.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Yes.

Jenn Wilson: There's a&

Jenn Wilson: We've talked a lot about your membership and your community and stuff, but you do lots of different things, don't you? It was quite hard to introduce you as what are you, a neurodivergent coach, a marketing.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Yeah.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Robert, do you want the list? Do you want the full list?

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): So, okay, so I am a best-selling author of Mad About Money. I'm also author of a children's book, which is called That's My Money, which is a collaboration with a lovely chap called Chris Dixon, who did all the illustrations for me.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): I am a ADHD coach. Not just ADHD or neurodiversity. I'm a trained neurodivergent coach. I specialize in ADHD because it's the thing that I know the most. I'm also a neurodiversity in the workplace specialist. I do, webinars and training sessions for, teams and stakeholders and

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): basically help people to, to run their business in a way that supports the neurodivergent people in their world. I am also a visibility strategist. Visibility is the thing that lights my fire.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): I love being visible, and for me, I am visible unmasked, unfiltered, and I always show up as the real me.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Which I love. Sometimes it comes with problems, because people

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): feel like they know me so well, because I am very, like, I do literally just talk about everything that is going on in my world. And that can be sometimes a bit challenging.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Especially& but I went to an event last week, and I had several people come up to me, and they were like, it's really nice, like, it's so nice to see you happy. And I'm like, I genuinely am happy. I am the happiest I've been, probably, in my entire life.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Like, I've just moved into a new house, like, my kids are getting a bit more settled, you know, my relationship is amazing, like, I am&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): debt-free, I am financially free, I have savings, I'm not& my spending addiction's under control, I have the best friends in the world, my membership's going well, like, everything's nice.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): But people know that it's nice, because when it's not nice, I live and breathe my values, so if I'm struggling, I will tell people, because in my opinion, like, sharing your struggles helps other people who are in the same boat.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm. And do you think that's perhaps one of the ways that&

Jenn Wilson: When we talk about, on this podcast, being the change you want to see in the world.

Jenn Wilson: Is that sharing of vulnerability part of that for you, do you think?

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Absolutely. I started taking sertraline because I had a nervous breakdown at the beginning& end of last year. I had 3 people who were really close to me pass away, well, two people and a dog, like, he wasn't a person. He was kind of like a person in my world.

Jenn Wilson: Well, we have.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Oh, honestly, it was, like, I think just with the trauma of, like, my dad passing away, my grandma went earlier on in the year, and then my dog went, like, 3 weeks after my dad, and it was just&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): It was just so much, and there was a lot of things going on for me in the business world, and I& I& my nervous system just basically just gave way on me, and I wasn't in a place where I felt like I could carry on.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): To put it bluntly, I have never felt so much suicide ideation in my entire life, so I started taking sertraline.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And I started talking about the fact that antidepressants have never been on my radar, like, never until, like& and there's a lot of judgment, a lot of shame, a lot of stigma around antidepressants, but when I started taking them, I thought, do you know what, I'm gonna document my journey, and it's not an attention-seeking thing. It's like, actually, if I'm struggling to make that decision, and I've always been quite anti-antidepressants, and I didn't want to take them.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): there's gonna be other people who are in the world who are also thinking, I can't take antidepressants, because they'll ruin me, they'll change my personality, they'll blunt me, like, all of these things. And I'm not gonna lie, they do blunt your emotions, but they don't blunt my happy emotions, they blunt my sad ones, and I'm quite happy not being a crying, nervous wreck all the time, so& and I've actually just taken the step to go down a little bit on my

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): antidepressants, so I'm& like, instead of taking them every day now, I'm taking them every other day, so that I'm& I'm hopefully gonna wean off them at some point.

Jenn Wilson: And that talking about that means that& that people watching that journey, because I know you were posting about it every day with a little update of how you were feeling, and the side effects that you were experiencing, and so on. I know other people, because I know& because we have mutual friends who, you know, who listened to that journey and went.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: If it's alright for Maddie to get the help that she needs, to take those antidepressants, then maybe I can seek some help too. And that is so, valuable for people, because there's so much shame wrapped around it.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Exactly, and I& and I think when& like, if you're& if you've got a cold, you take medication for it.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And I see it as, like, if your brain's struggling, take medication for it. So, I'm also on ADHD medication, I talked really openly about my journey on that. Together, I think they work well in harmony. Peace and harmony, I've got, like, a slightly less chaotic brain and a slightly less chaotic, like, nervous system, so&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): You know, it works, but it hasn't changed my personality, it hasn't changed who I am, apart from maybe for the better, because I'm thinking a bit more clearly and not being impulsive.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): not& not kind of reacting from a place of hurt, I'm kind of taking a step back and thinking, like, actually, is this how I would want to be treated? Probably not. And, you know, I didn't make

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): some good decisions last year. I did some things that were, like, you know, not punishable by death by any stretch of the imagination, or cancel culture, or any of those types of things.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): But I did some things that I wasn't particularly proud of, and, you know, I took ownership for those, I apologized to the people who I'd hurt, and I realised that

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): I was coming from a place of hurt, and I was coming from a place of anger, and now I'm, like, the most chilled person ever. I'm like, I'm not angry, I'm not hurt, I'm, like, just& I always felt a bit like a hippie in some sort of, like.

Jenn Wilson: Cool trance, like, owning that, you know, none of us is perfect, and&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And I&

Jenn Wilson: folks, and I think that you're right, you know, for a lot of neurodivergent people especially, we have a really strong sense of justice, and also the rejection sensitivities stuff. Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: And that's, like, a perfect storm for becoming defensive, for becoming, you know, for becoming all the things that you don't want to be, actually, when it all&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: kind of comes together.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Absolutely, and I'm currently training& I'm currently training in trauma response. Not just trauma-informed, trauma response, and I'm learning so much about my past traumas.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And the things that have happened to me over the last year all happened for me, because I'm now in the& I'm now in the space where I'm like, actually, things didn't happen to me, they happened for me, because I needed to learn that lesson, or I needed to&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Like, learn that thing about myself or about somebody else.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): You know, it's actually been quite an eye-opening time, and I'm looking back on it now and thinking, like.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): I don't think I could have helped how I reacted to certain situations, but now that I have that space, and I'm learning those techniques, like, you don't know what you don't know, right?

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, absolutely.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): So if you don't know how to regulate yourself, you don't know how to act in those situations, and you are somebody who is impulsive, an oversharer.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): you say things because they pop into your head, they might not be necessarily the right ones. Like, I actually feel like the combination of sertraline and ADHD medication has given me that time and space so that I can go pause before I react. And it's been quite an interesting journey.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, for sure. And I'm gonna take us off on a slight tangent now.

Jenn Wilson: Because the other thing that you& I mean, your book's called Mad About Money, and you& a lot of your coaching, it's not just neurodivergent people, it's about business and entrepreneurship, and how to make money, and how to, you know& and you've built&

Jenn Wilson: You know, you've built businesses that have then crashed, and built businesses again, and all of that experience is, you know, things that you bring to your work.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Yeah, my, my, my, my mid&

Jenn Wilson: the money work, and, you know, what that means.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Yeah, my middle name is Resilient now, I've changed it by default, haven't changed it by default. I kind of want to, though, because Louise is a rubbish name. Sorry to anyone whose middle name is Louise, or first name, for that matter, but&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Now, I have a turbulent relationship with money, like a lot of ADHDers do. When you're driven by dopamine, it means you are driven by impulse, and that often means that you can spend money

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Like, it's going out of fashion. I recognised, when I was about 36, after I'd paid off my first 40,000 of debt.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): that I had a spending addiction. So my first 40 pounds worth of spending was on bags and clothes and shoes and, like, takeaways and people-pleasing, because, you know, when you're a people pleaser and an ADHDer, quite often.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): You feel the need to buy people's friendship with&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): money. I mean, it wasn't like I was buying people or anything, but&

Jenn Wilson: Treating people to extravagant gifts that.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Yes, yeah, and I was& and I'm very much a giver, so I was& and my love language is giving people presents. So, like, I& I& I was very much a, like, I don't care how much money I've got, I'm just gonna be nice to everybody and just buy things. So I did.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): That got me into my first 40,000 of debt. I worked out ways to pay it all off, which worked for my brain.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And I think, from the feedback I've had from the book, works for other people's brains as well, which is really nice to hear. And then I accidentally got into another 60,000 pounds of debt, 20 of it was corporate, 40 was personal, because I misread some small print on a piece of paper.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And I felt like the world's biggest failure.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): I felt like, how can I be this money specialist who's going out there talking? Because I used to not do ADHD stuff, I used to not do business stuff, I was just a money specialist, that was my job. I had a discount card that helped people to shop local, which was, like, I have to say, a bloody brilliant idea, but the pandemic kind of put a bit of a nail in that coffin, because

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): you can't shop local when you can't leave the house. So, that was the reason why that business ended up failing.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And actually, it was& it was a really good learning curve for me. Like, it failed so dramatically, like, I'd raised investment, I raised 250,000 in investment, I'd franchised it, it was a UK-wide business, it was really well known, and then I had to deal with the shame of it all crashing down around me, and I had to start again.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): But I had no choice. It was either go back to the corporate world, which, like, I really didn't enjoy, or it was, find something I'm good at. And I kind of broke down everything that I'm good at on paper, like, what am I good at? Like, I'm good at selling, I'm good at showing up, like, I'm good at doing things like podcasts and video content, and&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Being people-facing.

Jenn Wilson: So, how can I use my experience to help other people who are in that situation? So that's kind of where it all started.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And since then, I have, like, completely started from scratch three times. I've sold another business. I started a parenting app, which was just a little, like.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): you know, a dopamine thing where I was like, oh, I must do this, because I've got this audience. And I grew that to a point where I could sell it. I sold that, used it to pay for my new app.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Which was called Mad About Money, but since then, I have& I've actually stopped following my ego.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): My ego was massive. Like, not in a, like, I'm really big-headed, but I was like, if I have my own app, I'll be better, you know, I'll be more well-known, and I'll have, like, you know, the kudos of having my own app. Didn't realize that having your own app costs ridiculous amounts of money.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And, so I moved it to a platform called Heartbeat. So I've now got the Madiverse, which is, like, a fairly low-cost, you know, easy-to-run

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): place. It's still well known, people still know it. I've still got people coming, but yeah, I'm not spending thousands of pounds a month on something. So, I kind of took a step back from being like, oh, I have to be this tech CEO founder, and I have to raise investment, and I have to& I was doing all the shoulds.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And we all say, you know, both me and you say that should goes in the effort bucket. So, you know, I still manage to not swear there.

Jenn Wilson: But it& the shoulds that I felt like I was& and I was trying to mold a business like a neurotypical.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): not as somebody who has not just all of the& like, I am literally one of the most neurodivergent people. I'm like the poster child for neurodivergence. I've even got mild Tourette's. Like, I'm not going to tell you what my tics are, because you'll notice them, and then you'll notice them. But I've got a lot of tics that I have, and&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): sometimes they're worse under pressure, worse under stress, and that kind of thing as well. But I have literally all of the neurodivergence, like, I have OCD, I'm a skin picker, I've got prosopagnosia, which is face blindness. I also have PMDD, which I think is possibly one of the most

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): disabling things, even though it's not a disability, premenstrual dysphoric disorder, is something which wrecks my brain on a monthly basis. I also have chronic pain, I have chronic fatigue, I have Hashimoto's disease, I'm hypermobile,

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): lots of things that& that& you know, I'm also a parent, that's quite disabling at times, because, you know.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Don't shoot me for anybody for saying that, but&

Jenn Wilson: Certainly, you know, it limits certain things that you could.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): It does, it does, and there was a point to me listing all of those things, but& but it& it's&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): The shoulds. So, you know, I& my body operates in a different way to other people's. My brain operates in a different way to other people's. And learning that about myself meant that I could actually become a better coach to other people, because every single person, whether they are neurodivergent, whether they're neurotypical, whether they've got chronic pain, whether they're disabled.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): all of those things that impact us on a daily basis in our lives mean that every single person has different boundaries, different rules, different things that they have to do, different people expectations. So, learning that about myself really helped me to identify that in my clients. And I, more often than not, I work with people who are neurodivergent or who have got chronic conditions to

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Help them to&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): basically function in their lives, like, and thrive. So, in my free community, the Madiverse, we cover money, life, and business, and business can be work as well.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): You know, I spent& lots of people don't know this, but I spent 12 years in recruitment, which means that, you know, I understand the working world very, very well. As a neurodiversity in the workplace trainer, I can help people to advocate for themselves. I can help people if they're making a career change, or a job decision, or going for a promotion.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Like, money is& Money is a flow of energy.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And so many people put so much emphasis on it, and living in a capitalist world, and you know this only too well through the work that you do, like, whether we like it or not, money does drive us, but it doesn't have to control us.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): And that's the difference.

Jenn Wilson: Absolutely, and I think that, you know, if I'm taking one thing, really core thing from everything that you've been saying, if we want to be the change we want to see in the world, then we kind of have to know ourselves really well.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Absolutely. And I really don't think I knew myself until&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): probably 3-4 months ago. It took my dad passing away, and me having that nervous breakdown, and doing loads of inner work, and, like, going to therapy, like, taking the medication, like, actually getting to know what.

Jenn Wilson: what were my, you know, what were my non-negotiables? What were the things that I needed to do to make sure that I function as a human, and&

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): I think those things as well, are some of the things that make me feel like I'm the happiest I've ever been, because I& I have got to a place where I'm doing things for me. Of course, I'm still doing things for my community, and I'm still doing things for my family, but I'm also putting me at the top of the pile. And that's& that's something I've never done before.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, well, absolutely, I'm so thrilled that you're doing that, because you were doing amazing work before.

Jenn Wilson: the last few months, and now, with that greater, sort of, inner strength and self-awareness, I'm sure things are going to really fly. If people want to find you on the internet and, you know, find you, find your book, find your coaching, find your membership, where's the best place for people who are listening, who can't be bothered to check the show notes?

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): I mean&

Jenn Wilson: I do.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Again, all people are different, and they listen to people on different platforms, so I am literally everywhere. So, I'm Maddie Alexander Grout on LinkedIn and Facebook, Maddie Talks Money on Instagram, Mad About Money Official on TikTok, Maddie Alexander Grout on YouTube as well.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): website's currently under construction, it has been under construction for about 7 months. I might do it at some point. I did actually sit down and write the content for it last night, so you never know, it might be sooner rather than later. And you can get my book on Amazon, Mad About Money, Managing Finances and Life with ADHD.

Jenn Wilson: There you have it. Well, Maddy Alexander Grail, thank you so much for being our guest today on Irregular Humans.

Maddy Alexander-Grout (she/her): Thank you for having me.