Rainbow Champions - guest Adam Holcroft-Tebbutt

Transcript

Start Time:: 00:00:02

End Time: 00:31:11.920

Jenn Wilson: Hi everyone, and welcome to today's episode of the Irregular Humans podcast with me, Jen Wilson. My guest today is the marvellous Adam.

Jenn Wilson: Holcroft Tebit from Rainbow & Co, who are an LGBTQ apparel company, and I met them at, I think it was at Reclaimed Means Business, which is Lindsay McGlone's, business, and…

Jenn Wilson: burlesque event, that's another story, and, saw the brilliant apparel that you were doing, and the brilliant, postcards and booklets and badges. I've got some of your badges, I wear them quite a lot.

Jenn Wilson: And we got chatting about you, and why you do that, and I just thought, what a great person to get on the podcast. So, welcome, Adam!

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Thank you for having me!

Jenn Wilson: It's great to have you here. Tell us a bit more about you, and that idea of being an irregular human, or, you know, being the change you want to see in the world. What… what's that meaning for you?

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah, well, I was reading, like, the…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: description of the podcast before I came on, and I was reading it, and I was like, that's just me, to a T. Sort of, you know, always been, like, a bit of the outsider, always been the odd one, and

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I've always been very, like, steadfast in who I was. Like, people…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I'm a trans guy, if that's not clear. And…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: you know, people always tried to change me when I was younger, but I was very, like…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: This is who I am.

Jenn Wilson: So, it really fit with…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: The theme of the podcast.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Because I was like… I was like a tomboy, young girl.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: You know, there was always people who were kind of like, oh, why don't you, like, wear dresses, or why don't you…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: do these things that are typically more feminine, but I was… I always push back against it.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I've always had, like, a really strong sense of self.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: From the beginning.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm.

Jenn Wilson: It's interesting, because I talk to quite a lot of the guests on here, and for many people, it's, like, not until they're in the… and for me too, to some extent, it's not until… I mean, I didn't actually recognise fully

Jenn Wilson: my own queerness until I was in my 40s. I thought because most of my relationships had been… I thought I was a woman, because

Jenn Wilson: I'm in my 50s, and we didn't have non-binary identities when I was growing up, and I… most of my relationships had been with men, and I just kind of went, oh, well, then I guess I'm a straight person, and denied my own kind of bisexuality, totally.

Jenn Wilson: And… and it was in my 40s, early 50s, that I really started to discover that, along with my own neurodivergence and, like, layers of stuff as I kind of stepped into my own truth. But…

Jenn Wilson: I guess one of the things about being, especially a trans person, I think, is you know that stuff about yourself so much more early on in your life. And, so… so…

Jenn Wilson: how was it to, like, step into that and own that? Or did… or did… was it just so much, this is who I am from the get-go, that you didn't have to, kind of, come out?

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Well, I kind of… so…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: similar things, like, I didn't really know what trans was until I was about 14. I saw a documentary on Channel 4, and, like, then it was a thing. Prior to that, it was just a case of.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: you know, when you're at school, they would split you into boys and girls, and I'd be like, no, I'm a boy. And everyone else was like, no, no, you're a girl. But I'd be like, well, I'm not, but whatever. We just kind of went with it.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: But then when I saw this documentary, it was kind of like, Oh, that's a thing, like…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: that must be what I am, because…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: it was presented that I'd never seen it

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: put forward before. Yeah. And so…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I did… I, like, came out to my mum, like, I was too scared to speak to her, so I was like, we wrote back and forth in a notebook to each other.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: And she… I think she wasn't, like, shocked, because I'd always been.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Like, I was mistaken for… being a boy anyway. Yeah. When I was, like, about 14, so, like…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: like, I'd go to the cinema with friends, and they wouldn't let me into a 12th movie, because I looked like a young boy, rather than a…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Teenage girl.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: And things like that, so she wasn't surprised, but she was the same, she didn't know anything about it.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: And she was, so she wasn't shocked, but it was…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I don't know what to do. So, it just started then from, like, going to our GP and things like that, and my mum, she wasn't…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: like, anti-trans or anything at the time, but she just didn't have any knowledge. Yeah. And she was just kind of like.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I don't know what to do, and you know, at one point she said.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: oh, when you're 18, you can do what you want, kind of thing.

Jenn Wilson: climb.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: great, fine, I'll wait till I'm 18 and I'll do what I want. But now, she's, like, the biggest trans ally in the world. Amazing. And she's literally just started working for me yesterday. Oh, wow! So,

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah, so it was…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I don't think it was a shock to anyone. And then when I… I came out to my mum first, but then when I, like, came out to friends and…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Family and stuff.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I don't think it was a shock, I think it was just that…

been, like, early, like, mid-: 2000

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: But it's mad to think that then there wasn't…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: As much representation as there is.

Jenn Wilson: No, there wasn't. And equally, there wasn't as much resistance. I mean, and one of the things I often.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yes.

Jenn Wilson: about the trans hate that we're seeing at the moment, and it's so hard, especially for trans women, but I know it's hard for myself as a non-binary person, and all trans people. Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: Is… That it is a reaction to progress, you know? And that up until, kind of.

Jenn Wilson:: 2015

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah.

ing, oh, I changed my name in: 2018

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, yeah.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: So, do you… I mean, when you look at that, do you feel like…

Jenn Wilson: you… do you feel like… I don't know, do you feel like you were fortunate that you had supportive… well, not anti, at least, people around you?

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Obviously, like, you know, there's… Thousands of people who come out as trans and then, you know.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: get chucked out of the home, or whatever. So, obviously, I'm grateful that I've…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: had support in that sense. But I also think…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: As probably most trans people do, if they didn't transition until they were adults, that…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: if I'd have known more, I'd have transitioned way earlier.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: And then you would have avoided having to have chest surgery or, you know.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Different hormones and stuff, and it would have made my life much easier.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, of course. And all of the… there's so much misunderstanding out there about trans-affirming care for children and young people, isn't there?

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: But I… like, I'm really happy to keep talking about this, but I don't want your irregularity to be pigeonholed into, well, I'm a trans man and that's my story, because there's so much more about you.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yes.

Jenn Wilson: Though, tell us more about what else happens in your life.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: So, I'm autistic, too.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: But I didn't get diagnosed as autistic until I was 27.

Jenn Wilson: Right.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: But referring back to saying I had a really strong sense of self, I think that comes from being autistic. I'm very, like.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: morals are very important to me. I'm very, like, black and white, rules and…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: so I feel like having a strong sense of self was part of that, but obviously at the time, I think I explained to people as, like.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Earlier in my life, my gender…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: was more of an issue, because that's, obviously, people perceive you as that. People don't look at you and think you're autistic, or think there's…

Jenn Wilson: neurodivergent in any way, so…

Jenn Wilson: after I'd sorted out my gender stuff and had transitioned, then it was kind of like…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I need to sort out the other stuff that was happening. And that's how I started Rainbow & Co, was I had a mental health breakdown at work.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I'd had a couple previously, and people have just always been like, oh, you're just really anxious, depression, all things like that.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: and then…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: it was just… for years, my mum and my family and stuff had said, I think you might be autistic, but it had never…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: caused enough problems for me, until I had this breakdown at work, and I literally was so anxious, I would… I couldn't go to work, I was, like, crying in the car on the way to work, like, really unwell.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: And my mum was like, you need to, like, go to the doctors now. So, we went to the doctors, and it turned out she'd said to my GP years ago.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I think he's autistic, and my GP had said, but he needs to come, not you.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Oh, I… And then I ended up getting a diagnosis and stuff, and it just lied.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: explained my life, really. I'd always been the odd one out because I presented as…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: like, a masculine girl when I was younger, but also, I was really introverted.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: really anxious person, but also one of those people who's, marked as, like, gifted and talented, and you know, you're gonna go on to become a lawyer and a doctor, and you're gonna go to Oxbridge, and…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Whilst I was also having mental breakdowns. Yeah, yeah. So I think… because I always think, even if I was born

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: cis male, I probably still would have got picked on and bullied, because there was…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Many other things you could have picked on before.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Just being different in terms of my gender expression.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, yeah. I recognise it so well, you know, as a neurodivergent queer person myself, of that feeling of always being…

Jenn Wilson: well, that's why I call myself irregular, you know, like, you know, just not quite…

Jenn Wilson: Not quite the standard, and also questioning those standards, and going.

Jenn Wilson: Why? Why does it have to be like that? Why do we have to do it like that? Why? Why does it have to, you know?

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Why?

Jenn Wilson: these rules, these sort of subtle, unwritten social rules?

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah, well, that's the thing with being autistic. It's… I'm very strict on rules, but they have to make sense. Don't give me a rule that's just…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: For no reason. I'm known for questioning everything, I'm always like, well, why? Why? And my family's just like, just do it, I've said do this, or, you know, and I'm just like, no, I need…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: A thorough explanation of why…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: something is done a certain way, I want things to be done as efficiently as possible.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, absolutely. And, and yeah, there's a good reason for it, of course, but yeah, but unjust… injustice.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yes, injustice.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Drives me mad.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, I think it does for a lot of neurodivergent people, and, yeah, it's like the world doesn't make sense. So…

Jenn Wilson: You've taken those feelings, that… those… and those two… the way you describe me, it feels like they're sort of…

Jenn Wilson: light bulb moments, in a way. You know, that… seeing that documentary and going, oh, that's me! And then, you know, that… that also the breakdown, although that must have been very painful, was also a kind of epiphany of sorts, a kind of moment in your life for change.

Jenn Wilson: So what… what's come out of that is Rainbow & Co, so tell us a bit about what that is and why it is as well.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah, so when I had my…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: mental health breakdown at work, I ended up having to leave work. I was working as a social media manager, but I'd always been doing

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: sort of…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: my own stuff on the side, so I did a bit of graphic design, did a bit of… I had an Etsy shop, and did little bits of stuff, but nothing that was, like, a full-time income.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: And when I left my job, my mum was like, I'm happy for you to leave your job, because obviously, I was living at her house at the time.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: And she was like, I'm happy for you to leave your job, but you need to…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: find something else to do. And I was just like, well, I can't work for anyone else, like, it just does not work for me.

Jenn Wilson: Like, I ended up…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I've had a few jobs, and it's like, I could do 18 months, and then I'd have a breakdown.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: And I won't… it wouldn't really be caused by anything, it would just be, I can't cope with

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: 9 to 5, going to work in an office, and…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: socializing with people. So I was like, I need to work for myself. I already know how to set up an Etsy, and I did advertising design at university, I had design skills, I love anything creative, and I was thinking, like, when I'd been to Pride, Manchester Pride, mainly, all of the

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: merch that was available was just for cis gay men, so it was just all…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: rainbow stuff or targeted at cis gay men. Nothing that represented me and my friends, who were mostly trans at the time, or any other identity. It was literally just that

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Pride is gay men, that's it.

Jenn Wilson: Gay pride, it's not lesbian, bisexual.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah, not even lesbian, like, literally just… literally just gay men. So yeah, the idea came from that, and it's just… so it was a combination of, I need to…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: work for myself and do something, and also, you know, that this is a big part of my identity, and a big part of my community, and I think I can do it better than it's been done, basically.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: So that was, we were 7 years old now, and it's,

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: At the start, my mum was like.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: hesitant, so at the beginning, she was like, oh, no one's gonna buy a t-shirt for 20 pounds. And I was like, yes, they are! Like, there's brands out there that are selling t-shirts for, like, 50 quid.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: And now she's, like, fully on board with it, because I've obviously proven that it's…

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: longevity. But at the time, I was like, I think it can work, but I didn't know if it would.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: And, like, so that's… I'm really proud that we've made it through 7 years. You know, we're not a massive company, it's still tiny, but…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I've done that on purpose, like, it could have grown a lot faster than it has.

Jenn Wilson: But I've seen a lot of…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: competitors come and go because they've, you know, maybe they've gone viral on TikTok or something, they've got thousands of orders, they've got a warehouse, they've got loads of stock, and then a few months later, they disappear because they can't sustain it. But I've intentionally grown slowly because

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I don't want to burn myself out, and I need to… my business… I always tell people, like, you work for yourself. Your business should work for you.

Jenn Wilson: like…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: You don't have to work 9 to 5, you don't have to work 5 days a week, you don't have to…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: do what's… Society tells you you have to do to work.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: So, yeah. I'm really proud of where it's got to.

Jenn Wilson: I'm really… yeah, it's amazing, and like, I'm really interested in that thing, actually, that thing of people kind of… there's a… there's a great value, isn't there, put on productivity, and… and what success looks like, is… is go big, go big, grow, go bigger.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: And… So, has actively resisting that been hard?

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I don't think it's been…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: hard, because I think it's because of the niche that I'm in.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: It's not so much,

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: you know, my audience is smaller than if I was just a generic fashion brand.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: And so I feel like a lot of my customers The same as me.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: a lot of them are neurodivergent, obviously they're… well, the majority is queer or allies, and I feel like they just get me, so…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: have been trying to be transparent on social media and being like, you know… I've just said yesterday we've launched this January care window, which is…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: you know, you would call it a sale, but I don't… I don't want to do a sale. I don't want it to be Black Friday and, like.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I'm just not into that. I don't, like, I try and give my customers the best value all year round, not buy now or you're gonna miss out kind of thing. So we've… I've phrased this January care window as, January's our quietest time of the year. If you want to support us, now is a good time to support us.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Some of the prices are reduced, but it's… you don't have to put a cord in, there's no, like…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: faffing about. There's no pressure to support us. So I feel like my customers get that, so I've…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I don't feel like I've had pressure to go faster.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I feel like I'm at the point now where, like, I've just… like I say, my mum's just started working for me yesterday, and this year we're kind of like, right, we're…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Pushing it this year, like, we're growing this year.

Jenn Wilson: Mmm.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: But I've not felt pressure from any external sources, it's just…

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, yeah. It's just that sort of social pressure, I guess, of.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: You know, what success looks like.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: But it's that confusion as well, like, my dad always says to me, oh, you're always working, you must be rich, you've got loads of money, you. And I'm like.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I'm always working, like, I have a nap every day, like, well, C's at work, do you know what I mean? Like, they don't see what's happening, but it's like…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Some people see you and think, oh, he's doing loads and loads of stuff. Other people, like my husband, will be like, oh, you never work, you.

Jenn Wilson: Because he sees me sleeping, I'm like…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Dotting about, as you'd say.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, and,

Jenn Wilson: I'm also loving this… this January care window idea, and I like that. Like, like you, I… I hate all that.

this, we're in early January: 2026

Jenn Wilson: And, all of that Black Friday stuff. Oh, it's a pain for me, Black Friday, because I'm the founder of the International Day of Consent, which is the 30th of November, and the Black Friday news is all over it.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: You know?

Jenn Wilson: crap time of… I picked that date because I actually originated it when I was doing a performance about consent, and I declared it the International Day of Consent because that's the day the performance was, without ever thinking about what that would mean, you know, 8 years, 9 years later.

Jenn Wilson: But yeah, the whole… The whole capitalist machine of selling and marketing.

Jenn Wilson: And I don't think… I mean, clearly, you sell things, of course you sell things.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yes.

Jenn Wilson: That's what you're in the business of doing. And it wouldn't be a business, it would be a hobby if you didn't sell things. And, yet, I also don't think that you're salesy, and, you know, that you're pushy about that.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: You need…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I, I agree.

Jenn Wilson: about that?

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah, I do try not to be,

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I do battle with it, as in, like, I…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: sometimes I try to have, like, the most ethical business I can, and, like, not to be…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I just find it things, like you were saying, it clashes with Black Friday, the International Day of Consent.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Like, I feel like Black Friday…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Is an example of not really giving consent, because you're being manipulated into buying something.

Jenn Wilson: You're not…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Obviously, no one's forcing you to click the buy button, but they've done everything they can.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: with the layout of the page, the discount, the bonuses, or whatever, to get you to buy. You've been manipulated to do that.

Jenn Wilson: Yes, it's a sort of fake sense of urgency, isn't it? You've got to get it now, or they'll never get the chance again.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah, yeah. And I think, particularly for neurodivergent people, you fall into that trap of buying it, and then you end up spending all your money.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: and you've, like, yeah, just, like, I've…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: just do not like it. Same reason I don't have, like, Klarna or ClearPay or something on my website, because I don't want people to go into debt to get my products.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: And…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: you know, there's two sides to that. Some people say, oh, but I could only buy from you if you had that option.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: But, for me, personally, I'm kind of like.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I… if I bought stuff on Klarna, I would be in debt.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: So, and I don't want other people to do that, to get my thing.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: That's it. I think, Klarna and ClearPlay, those sorts of… I mean, I certainly offer,

Jenn Wilson: stage payments for a lot of things I do, because they're more expensive things, and that… and it makes sense. If you're… if you're offering someone a program of training that's 500 or 1,000 or more pounds, and… for a year, then allowing them to pay monthly is.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah, no, I totally get that.

Jenn Wilson: It's like, making it more accessible.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yet.

Jenn Wilson: But, when you're talking about sweatshirts and…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: The most expensive thing I have is a hoodie, which is 40 or 45 pounds.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah, I just, I don't know, I have a bit of a…

Jenn Wilson: I think you're right, you know, if you can't save up 40 or 45 pounds for the hoodie, and you sell everything online, don't you? So it's not like they've come to your stall, they've got to get the hoodie today, or that's it.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: and I've… so far, I've never retired a design, so… because I make everything to order to keep it lean, so…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: You're not gonna miss out on anything.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: And I also have where people can

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: ask me to make something custom, like, because I make everything to order, I'm just…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: you know, if I don't have your flag, or I don't have your identity, then you can come and say.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Can you do me a mug in this flag, or whatever?

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, that's brilliant.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: That's another thing I want to… I want you to talk about, because one of the… one of the things that's actually on my.

Jenn Wilson: It's on my Almanac journal website page that I've got, because I'm gonna do… I'm going to work up to my own version, but I haven't got there yet, which is you have a brilliant, describer pamphlet

Jenn Wilson: for all of the LGBTQIA plus alphabet. Not the… even the alphabet, the smaller identities that people don't…

Jenn Wilson: necessarily know about and understand in the mainstream. Yeah. How did that come about, and tell us a bit about what's in it, because people listening won't know what that is, and what sorts of things…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: It's the Pocket Guide to LGBTQIA plus identities, and it's just a little…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I think it's A6 size, little booklet that's got different flags in, split into gender and sexuality, and gives you a dis- shows you the flag, gives you a description of the identity. And that came from

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: going to Pride events at the beginning of Rainbow and Core, and people asking me, you know, what's that flag? What's that flag? What's that mean? What's that mean? And obviously I've told them, but then I was like, you know what, I'll make a little booklet. And that's, like, one of my best sellers.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: As well as donating them to prides and different, LGBTQ…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: like, youth groups and things like that.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Because I think it's… I've made it pocket-sized on purpose. There's… there is still a lot in it, but there could be a lot more. Yeah, yeah. But I wanted it to be…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: something, like, I know people who carry them around in the pocket, like, I wanted it to be, literally, you can have it with you at all times, to be…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: just whip it out. Added it.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: a kid's birthday party once, someone was asking someone, I was like, oh, wait a minute, yeah, have a look at this. And they can find your identity in there, and then they're like, oh my god, yeah, that's me, yeah. Because I think it's really interesting, because some of the descriptions

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: And of the different… labels.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Apply to cishet people.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah. You know?

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: There's things like being attracted to masculine people, or being attracted to feminine people. Some, you know…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: My dad, who's a super heterosexual, probably would never think that he would have a label, could be described as being attracted to feminine people.

Jenn Wilson: Mmm.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I just find that really interesting, because, obviously, people who are not part of the community are… not necessarily against the community, but…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: just think they're there. They've got nothing in common. There's no crossover between me and… Queer people.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: But there probably is.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, absolutely. And what do you… I mean, I've got my own opinions about this, and I know that we'll be aligned on this, but for people listening…

Jenn Wilson: When people, like, go, why do you have to have all of these different identities? What, you know, what's a… what's a demi-boy now, and a omnisexual, and a… what is it all about, all of these millions of identities? They're all made up, and it's nonsense.

Jenn Wilson: What… what… how… what do you want to say about that?

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah, I mean, I get people coming to the store saying things like that, and I'm just like, why are you here at Pride? Like…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: People are just expressing themselves.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Firstly, like you said, oh, they're all made up, everything's made up. Like, all language is made up, and…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Everything's made up.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: It's just people finding words to fit them. And, like, some of the… I'll read some of them and be like, oh, I'm not sure about that, but I'm never gonna tell someone else that can't identify as that, like…

Jenn Wilson: Hmm.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I don't know how that person feels, or…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: How their attraction or their gender identity reveals itself.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Mmm…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I always… I just always say to people when they ask at the store, I'm just like, do you have the words to express how you feel?

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: That's all these.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: identities and these flags are doing, they're just giving people… and they also try to say to people as well.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: That it's all fluid.

Jenn Wilson: Because people will be like.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Well…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: You can't be that and that at the same time, or you can't be, you know, or you're a lesbian, you're just a lesbian for life now.

Jenn Wilson: Oh yeah, tell me about it. As a person who's bisexual, pansexual, whichever label you want to put on.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: The… the pressure to pick a side.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yes.

Jenn Wilson: is just… well, that's why I didn't understand who I was, you know? I always fancied people of all genders, but I figured that everybody did.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: you know, as I said, because most of my relationships had been with men, then I was probably straight, but I was never straight, you know.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: That's… that is in the… as we're saying, like, the strong sense of self, like, when I was younger, everyone thought I was a lesbian because I was.

Jenn Wilson: for the…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: masculine presenting, but I knew I wasn't a lesbian.

Jenn Wilson: Hmm…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I'd never been attracted to women, and when I was at high school, before I transitioned, someone else said to me, oh, you're a gay man in a woman's body. And I was like, yeah, I am. Like, I was like, oh my god, how do you know?

Jenn Wilson: You just, you just named it.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yay.

Jenn Wilson: up.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: But people always saw me as, like, having…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Well, it's a stereotypical, like, effeminate gay man.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: persona, but people thought that about me when I was supposed to be a girl.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, yeah.

Jenn Wilson: And how powerful to actually step into that, and to take on, you know, to start a business that's about supporting and magnifying and celebrating all of that.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: And is that, you know, is that that… that's the motivator, I guess, is it, really? You know, to…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah, basically, like, getting… helping people be seen, and…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Knowing that they've got space in the world, and there's people out here who can support you, who…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: I'm not gonna try and change you.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah. It's very fulfilling, I love it getting… I love getting messages and, like, reviews and stuff, and people, like, someone's…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: done a review before, and been like, oh, I told you, like, my alternate name in your email, and when you wrote me a thank you note, you put my name on it, and like, oh, it made me really happy, and just stuff like that, and it's like, well, I consider it just basic human decency to call someone what they want to be called, or like.

Jenn Wilson: Like, you know.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Use the correct pronouns, or whatever.

Jenn Wilson: But people are so…

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Grateful for it, and… Gives you that warm, fuzzy feeling.

Jenn Wilson: It does, and it makes an important difference, I think, in the world. If you think, you know, I mean, it's clear how…

Jenn Wilson: How those lightbulb moments for you of being suddenly seen by someone.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah.

Jenn Wilson: Made such a difference.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Definitely.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah. Oh, Adam, it's been a real joy talking to you today.

Jenn Wilson: and hearing about the origins of Rainbow Co. I really want to encourage everyone to go and visit Rainbow Co. and check out your amazing merch there, badges, sweatshirts, t-shirts, postcards, all the things you've got.

Jenn Wilson: everything, mugs, plags, all the things. Where, if people are looking you up on the internet, where can they find you?

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah, so the website is rainboneco.uk.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: And then…

Jenn Wilson: Is that… is that Rainbow A-N-D?

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yes. You know, right, literally the whole world. Rainbowandcore.uk, and then on socials, I'm at Rainbowandcore UK on everything.

Jenn Wilson: Excellent. Well, I hope people go and find you and buy some of your brilliant, merch, whether people listening are Allies or

Jenn Wilson: part of the LGBTQ plus communities themselves.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Yeah, custom get in touch as well.

Jenn Wilson: Yeah, and yeah, customs, yeah, yeah, we should talk about that. Alright, thank you so much, Adam, and for being our guest here today on Irregular Humans.

Adam (He/Him) - Rainbow & Co: Thank you.